Best First Officer in the history of Trek

[MacLeod]

Spock actually failed that one. As first officer, the job is to delegate and organize. Spock should *not* have been in that reactor. He should have been ordering an engineer (who is less vital to the ship) to do it instead.

Also, he wasn't even first officer during WoK. At that point Spock was captain of the Enterprise, which makes it doubly inappropriate.



FTFY

No Kirk was Captain of the Enterprise at that point in TWOK, Spock was only Cpatain at the start of the film we have this line

An emergency situation has arisen. By order of Starfleet Command, as of now, eighteen hundred hours, I am assuming command of this vessel. Duty officer so note in the ship's log. Plot a new course, for Space Laboratory Regula I. Engine room. Mister Scott!

 

[BillJ]

No Kirk was Captain of the Enterprise at that point in TWOK, Spock was only Cpatain at the start of the film we have this line

An emergency situation has arisen. By order of Starfleet Command, as of now, eighteen hundred hours, I am assuming command of this vessel. Duty officer so note in the ship's log. Plot a new course, for Space Laboratory Regula I. Engine room. Mister Scott!

Kirk taking command doesn't change the fact that Spock is captain of the Enterprise. It is Spock's ship, not Kirk's.

 

[Thefallguy]

Whoever it is on The Orville Reddenbacker: I don't know because it's not a fucking star trek show. Do we have to bring that show up on every thread? The Expanse takes place in space too. Can we discuss that as an alternate trek show as well?

I didn’t see a single minute of „The Orville“ but if we’re talking about XOs from other SciFi shows, I have to name Mike Slattery, cause he was a damn fine XO (and now Captain) and „The last ship“ feels a lot like Star Trek on the water.

 

[zar]

Kirk taking command doesn't change the fact that Spock is captain of the Enterprise. It is Spock's ship, not Kirk's.

It does. Whoever commands the ship holds the position of captain regardless of rank. Same goes for first officer. A captain can be an Admiral (Kirk), Lieutenant Commander (Jadzia Dax), or Ensign (Harry Kim). A first officer can be a Captain (Spock, Decker), Lieutenant (Number One), Lieutenant Commander (Spock) etc.

 

[BillJ]

Whoever it is on The Orville Reddenbacker: I don't know because it's not a fucking star trek show. Do we have to bring that show up on every thread?

Probably because it feels more like "Star Trek" than anything Discovery has done so far. I see more and more people saying the same thing.

 

[starsuperion]

Probably because it feels more like "Star Trek" than anything Discovery has done so far. I see more and more people saying the same thing.

Yep, very true...

 

[The Wormhole]

I didn’t see a single minute of „The Orville“ but if we’re talking about XOs from other SciFi shows, I have to name Mike Slattery, cause he was a damn fine XO (and now Captain) and „The last ship“ feels a lot like Star Trek on the water.

Mike Slattery's awesome, though I excluded him since he is now a Captain and the trailer for the new season indicates

Spoiler

he's going to be an Admiral in season 5.

 

[Jedman67]

Probably because it feels more like "Star Trek" than anything Discovery has done so far. I see more and more people saying the same thing.

Haven't seen it yet, but what makes it different/better?
Is it that it runs similar to the TNG=>Voyager styles that most of us are familiar with?

 

[BillJ]

Is it that it runs similar to the TNG=>Voyager styles that most of us are familiar with?

Looks like TNG, has the pacing and character interaction of TOS. Just a fun time, something I haven't said about televised Trek in a really long time.

 

[Commishsleer]

Kirk taking command doesn't change the fact that Spock is captain of the Enterprise. It is Spock's ship, not Kirk's.

Yes Spock is still Captain and thats one of the reasons he goes into the reactor chamber. Spock's still responsible for the people on board the ship even if command decisions are made by Kirk. But I'm not against giving Spock credit for his damn heroic actions even if it was as a Captain. He's still a hero.

As to who's the best XO in the fleet -isn't that like saying who's the best Olympic silver medalist?.Unless you count the properties that differentiate the !st officer's role like loyalty, making the CO look good, defending the CO from visiting Admirals and crazy crewman/ex-girlfriends, taking the rap for the COs mistakes, making sure there's enough coffee on board.

So course Spock is the best XO by a country mile. The real race is for 2nd.

I think Kira is badass but I don't think she's that great an XO. She's got her own agenda and Sisko's got his and sometimes they intersect. Kira's all about her people as she should be.
I'm also thinking T'Pol spent too much time in ENT Season 1 hated and being hated.
Both ladies came good at the end though.
I think Riker had more opportunity to shine than Chakotay. Janeway pretty much dominated over her crew.

 

[Noname Given]

Probably because it feels more like "Star Trek" than anything Discovery has done so far. I see more and more people saying the same thing.

Confirmation bias is a tricky thing.

 

[Push The Button]

"If the crew doesn't hate the XO, then he's not doing his job."
-Col. Saul Tigh

 

[XCV330]

Saru has the potential of being M*A*S*H's Maj. Frank Burns in the 2nd season if they chose to go that route. They won't, but my God it would be grand.

 

[the Sisko]

And I think the idea of Saru as a coward is an overstatement. Saru is a prey species. That means he wants to avoid death, is willing to fight not just defensively but with a brutality if necessary. He has extra-sensory risk management. In the context of a Federation star ship, he is well equipped to carry out almost any mission. His natural weakness might be sustaining diplomatic engagement with with a vastly superior armed foe and talking them down. That being said, he is also a professional having gone through extensive training and at least 7 years of experience. He compliments Lorca's recklessness well, as Lorca engaged 6 Klingon ships, even to the point of intercepting torpedoes with low shields despite the other federation ship having no way to survive the battle.

 

[STR]

No Kirk was Captain of the Enterprise at that point in TWOK, Spock was only Cpatain at the start of the film we have this line

Not quite how that works. At the beginning of the film, Kirk is an observer. He's not issuing orders. No one is reporting to him.

As a flag officer, when Kirk takes command, he's going from observer to mission commander. The ship is still Spock's. The chain of command still goes through Spock. Everyone on the ship reports...to Spock. If the admiral is incapacitated, Spock takes over as mission commander in addition to retaining command of the ship.

That was his duty at the time: enact the mission commanders orders by properly delegating them to Enterprise's subordinate officers and provide continuity of command (i.e stay alive) so that the mission will still succeed in case the commander doesn't stay alive.

Not his job: bypassing the whole command structure and dying while doing the job of a junior officer/enlisted serviceman.

 

[the Sisko]

In light of Discovery, I want to reimagine the radiation scene. Spock performs Katric arts with McCoy, giving Spock superstrength to absorb radiation beyond even the boundaries of a radiation suit. He knows it will take a toll on McCoy, especially untrained in the arts but also knows his death will free McCoy. Scotty knows that Spock just being in the room sealed spock's fate (when he said "he's dead already"). McCoy is functioning fine at the end of TWOK with Spock dead but once the Genesis planet awakens Spock (TSFS), the connection, to a now untrained mind, takes a toll on McCoy.

In this scenario, Spock would have done what only he or another Logic trained Vulcan could do.

Not quite how that works. At the beginning of the film, Kirk is an observer. He's not issuing orders. No one is reporting to him.

As a flag officer, when Kirk takes command, he's going from observer to mission commander. The ship is still Spock's. The chain of command still goes through Spock. Everyone on the ship reports...to Spock. If the admiral is incapacitated, Spock takes over as mission commander in addition to retaining command of the ship.

That was his duty at the time: enact the mission commanders orders by properly delegating them to Enterprise's subordinate officers and provide continuity of command (i.e stay alive) so that the mission will still succeed in case the commander doesn't stay alive.

Not his job: bypassing the whole command structure and dying while doing the job of a junior officer/enlisted serviceman.

 

[The Wormhole]

Not quite how that works. At the beginning of the film, Kirk is an observer. He's not issuing orders. No one is reporting to him.

As a flag officer, when Kirk takes command, he's going from observer to mission commander. The ship is still Spock's. The chain of command still goes through Spock. Everyone on the ship reports...to Spock. If the admiral is incapacitated, Spock takes over as mission commander in addition to retaining command of the ship.

That was his duty at the time: enact the mission commanders orders by properly delegating them to Enterprise's subordinate officers and provide continuity of command (i.e stay alive) so that the mission will still succeed in case the commander doesn't stay alive.

Not his job: bypassing the whole command structure and dying while doing the job of a junior officer/enlisted serviceman.

But you don't send people to their death on the grounds of "you're lower ranking and therefore more expendable than us senior officers." That's a quick way to get your crew to resent you, and rather than being willing to die for their CO they're likely going to arrange a convenient accident. Note, that even when Deanna Troi's command exam required her to order someone to their death, that someone was the chief engineer and not a lower ranking engineer. Rank does not privilege you to send your subordinates to their death just because they lack rank.

 

[Mudd]

Spock, followed by Kelly Grayson.

This. Why doesn't Grayson have her own command?

Trek always has lame excuses for the fact that the obviously awesome XOs don't get promoted.

This may be the only area in which Discovery has excelled. "I mutinied and started a war" is a good reason.

 

[STR]

But you don't send people to their death on the grounds of "you're lower ranking and therefore more expendable than us senior officers." That's a quick way to get your crew to resent you, and rather than being willing to die for their CO they're likely going to arrange a convenient accident. Note, that even when Deanna Troi's command exam required her to order someone to their death, that someone was the chief engineer and not a lower ranking engineer. Rank does not privilege you to send your subordinates to their death just because they lack rank.

Whether or not you're aware, the subtext of any order that's likely to result in death or injury of your subordinate is "because you're more disposable than I am". You can object to my wording but it doesn't matter. It's implicit to the act. It's inherent to the structure of armed forces.

At no point did I say high rank keeps one's own life from risk. I said the specific instance in question was wrong. I'm aware there is a plethora of situations which would result in Capt. Spock getting tasked with a suicide mission. This wasn't one of them.

Also, Troi's test was a simulation deliberately designed to get her to order her friend to his death. You can't cite that as an example of anything broader than that.

 

[waxon]

Spock. I think Tpol comes next, she survived in a hostile environment and working subordinate to that arse Archer.

As for Saru from what I've seen of the character so far, nothing has shown me that he is suited to the position he is in, or god forbid if he ever becomes a Captain. His species characteristics seem to hamper him from making objective decisions and his awareness of his weaknesses leads him to overcompensate which isn't good either.

The episode which had him in charge, showed the dangers of him ever gaining command. Yes he rescued the Captain (or rather he picked up the Captain after he rescued himself) but he completely dismissed Burnham's legitimate concerns and those of the other crew. You would think a prey species would be more considerate. He endangered the crew and starfleets technical advantage by ignoring crew concerns, chasing after the captain and not being concerned about the Tardigrade (starfleet's only Tardigrade).

What would have happened if the Tardigrade had died and they didn't have another way to control the spore drive? He would have stranded the crew and ship in Klingon space. Lorca was important yes but not at the expense of the crew or the Discovery and Saru seemed not to care about that. He failed to see the bigger picture, which is something all Captains need to be able to do.