• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Benjamin Sisko's Religious Conversion

alienFanatic

Ensign
Newbie
I tend to re-watch Deep Space Nine roughly once or twice per year. Yesterday, I again watched the episode, "Rapture" in which Benjamin Sisko re-discovers the lost city of B'hala and something struck me that hadn't before: this is the episode that Sisko begins treating The Prophets as a religion rather than as an alien species. Perhaps there were other hints of it earlier, but in general I felt that Sisko approached the entire idea of himself as The Emissary and the wormhole aliens as "Prophets" with a great deal of skepticism.

For me, though, this is a striking tonal shift for the show. Until this point, even with the introduction of Pah Wraiths in the Keiko/Miles episode earlier in the season, the Trek writers had tried to keep a separation between religion and science. At this point, though, it's as though they wanted to intentionally blur the lines between the two. And, even after all these years having watched the show, I'm bothered by the shift.

Once Sisko was mentally damaged (or "enhanced," if you will) by his accident, he became almost zealously committed to the visions presented to him. Rather than seeing them as a side-effect of the non-linear nature of the wormhole aliens' existence, suddenly he saw a "grand plan" that was laid out for the Bajorans and the local universe. (This despite the fact that the aliens had never once shown any direct interest in linear, corporeal beings outside of the Bajorans and even then their interest seemed inconsistent.) Before this point, I'd have expected Sisko to treat such revelations with a deeply skeptical eye, and that he'd have attributed any foresight to the ability of the aliens to see all points in the past and future.

I'm not sure that I like it. It led, of course, to the great good-versus-evil conflicts of the final two seasons, notably between the "good" Prophets and the "evil" Pah Wraiths. But what the writers almost steadfastly refused to do was address issue of predetermination (save for the episode in which a Pah Wraith and Prophet face off in the "Kost Amojan" and fail to fulfill a prophecy) and how Sisko's future seems already written. I'm not normally a deep-thinker when it comes to fantasy, but this one is really sticking in my craw.
 
I tend to re-watch Deep Space Nine roughly once or twice per year. Yesterday, I again watched the episode, "Rapture" in which Benjamin Sisko re-discovers the lost city of B'hala and something struck me that hadn't before: this is the episode that Sisko begins treating The Prophets as a religion rather than as an alien species. Perhaps there were other hints of it earlier, but in general I felt that Sisko approached the entire idea of himself as The Emissary and the wormhole aliens as "Prophets" with a great deal of skepticism.

For me, though, this is a striking tonal shift for the show. Until this point, even with the introduction of Pah Wraiths in the Keiko/Miles episode earlier in the season, the Trek writers had tried to keep a separation between religion and science. At this point, though, it's as though they wanted to intentionally blur the lines between the two. And, even after all these years having watched the show, I'm bothered by the shift.

Once Sisko was mentally damaged (or "enhanced," if you will) by his accident, he became almost zealously committed to the visions presented to him. Rather than seeing them as a side-effect of the non-linear nature of the wormhole aliens' existence, suddenly he saw a "grand plan" that was laid out for the Bajorans and the local universe. (This despite the fact that the aliens had never once shown any direct interest in linear, corporeal beings outside of the Bajorans and even then their interest seemed inconsistent.) Before this point, I'd have expected Sisko to treat such revelations with a deeply skeptical eye, and that he'd have attributed any foresight to the ability of the aliens to see all points in the past and future.

I'm not sure that I like it. It led, of course, to the great good-versus-evil conflicts of the final two seasons, notably between the "good" Prophets and the "evil" Pah Wraiths. But what the writers almost steadfastly refused to do was address issue of predetermination (save for the episode in which a Pah Wraith and Prophet face off in the "Kost Amojan" and fail to fulfill a prophecy) and how Sisko's future seems already written. I'm not normally a deep-thinker when it comes to fantasy, but this one is really sticking in my craw.

Predetermination exists in relation to the prophets because they are non-linear. And Siskos visions have both a religious and scientific explanation as a result. It's not so much that Siskos future is already written, that the prophets have already seen it, or are seeing it, or will see it. And maybe, having already seen it, they then sort of help it happen...just as Sisko helps Kirk future happen in Trials and Tribbleations. But then you get into predestination paradoxes. DS9 is very careful to never show the BajorAn creation myth...because that erases the dichotomy at the heart of the prophets. In this way they are both 'Gods' and 'Wormhole Aliens'. That sort of happens elsewhere too...Q says he is God, says there isn't a god, then through interference assists in the creation of human life, but is actually preventing its destruction, for which it had to first exist. Is Q a god? Is Q the god? Is he a subcontractor? It's never answered.
 
I thought of Q as an angel with a mischievous streak, myself.
As for Sisko, I think his change really started with "Accession." He found the Chinese adage, "be careful what you wish for; you may get it," to be true.
 
I tend to re-watch Deep Space Nine roughly once or twice per year. Yesterday, I again watched the episode, "Rapture" in which Benjamin Sisko re-discovers the lost city of B'hala and something struck me that hadn't before: this is the episode that Sisko begins treating The Prophets as a religion rather than as an alien species. Perhaps there were other hints of it earlier, but in general I felt that Sisko approached the entire idea of himself as The Emissary and the wormhole aliens as "Prophets" with a great deal of skepticism.

For me, though, this is a striking tonal shift for the show. Until this point, even with the introduction of Pah Wraiths in the Keiko/Miles episode earlier in the season, the Trek writers had tried to keep a separation between religion and science. At this point, though, it's as though they wanted to intentionally blur the lines between the two. And, even after all these years having watched the show, I'm bothered by the shift.

Once Sisko was mentally damaged (or "enhanced," if you will) by his accident, he became almost zealously committed to the visions presented to him. Rather than seeing them as a side-effect of the non-linear nature of the wormhole aliens' existence, suddenly he saw a "grand plan" that was laid out for the Bajorans and the local universe. (This despite the fact that the aliens had never once shown any direct interest in linear, corporeal beings outside of the Bajorans and even then their interest seemed inconsistent.) Before this point, I'd have expected Sisko to treat such revelations with a deeply skeptical eye, and that he'd have attributed any foresight to the ability of the aliens to see all points in the past and future.

I'm not sure that I like it. It led, of course, to the great good-versus-evil conflicts of the final two seasons, notably between the "good" Prophets and the "evil" Pah Wraiths. But what the writers almost steadfastly refused to do was address issue of predetermination (save for the episode in which a Pah Wraith and Prophet face off in the "Kost Amojan" and fail to fulfill a prophecy) and how Sisko's future seems already written. I'm not normally a deep-thinker when it comes to fantasy, but this one is really sticking in my craw.
I think I would love to see that episode.
I have the whole series on DVD, but they were used when I bought them, and that is one of the episodes that runs about 25 minutes and then stops and then skips to the credits
 
I think I would love to see that episode.
I have the whole series on DVD, but they were used when I bought them, and that is one of the episodes that runs about 25 minutes and then stops and then skips to the credits
Every time I've bought a season of DS9, this kind of issue has occurred with an episode or two. Thank goodness for Netflix.

Kor
 
Every time I've bought a season of DS9, this kind of issue has occurred with an episode or two. Thank goodness for Netflix.

Kor

I bought the entire series and each season would indeed have discs which didn't work, so I had to return them. A set of DS9-DVD's would look nice right next to Babylon 5 DVD's.
 
I bought the entire series and each season would indeed have discs which didn't work, so I had to return them. A set of DS9-DVD's would look nice right next to Babylon 5 DVD's.
I'm treat Hong right now, the entire series.
I am going to try to note the ones that are the scratch=skip ones and try to get them online or net flix
 
I think his state of mind about the Prophets changed when he had to fight with the poet for his status as Emissary.

It was pretty much the point of that episode wasn't it. Don't know what you got till its gone/ok...the new guy in your old jobs an asshole, still wanna quit? He's gonna mess all your hard work up... it's practically a cop show with some manipulative god stuff thrown in. They even toss in the reset button as an 'it's a wonderful life' moment, just to really make it obvious that the Sisko is of Bajor.
 
Sisko should have been relieved of command after the events in 'Rapture'. At the point he starts taking orders from wormhole aliens instead of the Federation government he is in the wrong place in the Starfleet. He seems like a nice guy on personal level, but I really couldn't respect him as a Starfleet officer after that point.
 
Sisko should have been relieved of command after the events in 'Rapture'. At the point he starts taking orders from wormhole aliens instead of the Federation government he is in the wrong place in the Starfleet. He seems like a nice guy on personal level, but I really couldn't respect him as a Starfleet officer after that point.

They can't. It's political at that point...even if the brass didn't approve, Bajor is not going to take kindly to the Emissary being sacked. Which means the whole deal goes down the pan...Bajor would no longer be on a path to joining the federation, and Starfleet loses Ds9 and the wormhole. Being the Emissary makes Sisko into literally the only man for the job.
 
At the point he starts taking orders from wormhole aliens
What? When was that? He secures permission from Adm. Whately to obtain and explore the information that the Prophets were providing. Moreover, up until the point he lost consciousness, his attending physician had no reason to doubt he was of sound mind to make is own medical decisions.
 
If I were either serving under him or a member of the brass I would feel extremely uncomfortable with his role. Because I sure as heck don't want my wait or the fate of the federation tied to a man whose real sympathies lie more and more to a bunch of remote near unexplainable beings who more than likely don't have my or the federation's interests at heart.
 
Actually, I think the decision in making Sisko part Prophet had its seeds in "RAPTURE". And if not, I think that 7th season decision retroactively explained how Sisko was able to get so specific with his visions, like how the Admiral's son forgave him. That energy bolt somehow enhanced his latent Prophet genes, or whatever they can be called.
 
Actually, I think the decision in making Sisko part Prophet had its seeds in "RAPTURE". And if not, I think that 7th season decision retroactively explained how Sisko was able to get so specific with his visions, like how the Admiral's son forgave him. That energy bolt somehow enhanced his latent Prophet genes, or whatever they can be called.
Not really. If I am not mistaken, Sisko was always meant to be something of a Bajoran Moses, someone who Piller thought was going to be a revered figure to lead a people into a new era. Over seasons three and four it was, though, taking on a more explicit religious meaning. On the other hand, being Bajoran Jesus, who fights the struggle between good and evil, didn't take shape until Waltz.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top