Beaming into the Narada

[AmbassadorPointyEars]

Ok, so forgive me if this has been discussed already...

After the Enterprise gets to Titan, how can they beam into the Narada? Wouldn't they have shields? Were the shields down in preparation for lowering the hole-making thingamajig?

 

[Jeri]

I never heard Narada's shields mentioned. The idea of hiding the Enterprise was so the Narada wouldn't detect them, and they wouldn't be on alert.

 

[Jeyl]

I never heard Narada's shields mentioned.

*When the Narada is being engulfed by the black hole.
Chekov: Captain, the enemy vessel is losing power. Her shields are down.

 

[Jeri]

Well, that's that, then. But the remainder is still true; the whole Sulu scene, putting the Enterprise in the dust ring was so the Narada wouldn't be on alert.

Don't know about whether the Narada has to lower shields to use the drill.

 

[DonIago]

It would make sense, given that the drill extends through any reasonable shield bubble...of course, that being said, there's no hard evidence either way.

It seems entirely possible that the interference generated by the drill would interfere with the Narada's shields as well...and since it started life as a mining ship, it's entirely possible shielding wasn't considered a priority.

 

[Phily B]

It was using the drill, I don't think it could get through the shields. And it was likely at green alert without its shields up as there was no immediate threat.

 

[Trekker4747]

It was using the drill, I don't think it could get through the shields. And it was likely at green alert without its shields up as there was no immediate threat.

If it was using the drill the Enterprise's transporter wouldn't have worked.

I'm going to specualte that Scotty's formula for "transwarp beaming" was similar to the "deminsional shift" style of transport talked about in TNG. In TNG this shift transporter could transport incredible distances and through shields but it had the side-effect of mucking up DNA in the process.

Maybe this is what Scotty's transporter formula was about which may explain why it was never developed or employed by Starfleet.

 

[Broccoli]

I bet the Wizard did it.

 

[AmbassadorPointyEars]

I understand the warping into Titan was done to 'hide' from the Narada. Once there, they had to beam into the ship. If the drill was activated, transporters would not work. Hence, the assumption that shields may have to be lowered as the drill is being lowered or in preparation for drilling. I would think that otherwise shields would be up, even if on low alert...

 

[Jeri]

I don't recall that Federation ships have their shields up without an alert. They always need to put them up.

 

[lucas1701]

Isn't a more pertinent question how the Enterprise managed to beam anyone from Saturn orbit to Earth? Even Enterprise-D transporters didn't have that kind of range.

The Saturn system is a billion miles and 2.5 light-hours away from Earth. A transporter beam should not be able to travel faster than light, therefore the whole scenario was absurd.

Unless they utilised the 'transwarp-beaming' formula, and in inventing this rather clumsy plot-device, JJ Abrams has inadvertently made all Starships obsolete!!!

 

[JarodRussell]

Isn't a more pertinent question how the Enterprise managed to beam anyone from Saturn orbit to Earth? Even Enterprise-D transporters didn't have that kind of range.

The Saturn system is a billion miles and 2.5 light-hours away from Earth. A transporter beam should not be able to travel faster than light, therefore the whole scenario was absurd.

Unless they utilised the 'transwarp-beaming' formula, and in inventing this rather clumsy plot-device, JJ Abrams has inadvertently made all Starships obsolete!!!

Don't worry, it will be totally forgotten about in the next movie. Surely there will be a "We can't beam them back, we are out of range." line somewhere.


Orci and Kurtzman can't imagine distances they were dealing with, can they? 3 minutes from Earth to Vulcan, instant beaming from Delta Vega to a ship moving at warp, the Kelvin being 75,000 kilometers away from the Klingon border (wtf, like only a second at full impulse), beaming from Titan to Earth through the Narada's shields...

Yeah, yeah, speed of plot, I know. If someone wrote a story set in New York, would you say it's reasonable if he got from Brooklyn to Staten Island in a car in just a minute? Because the plot requires it? Isn't the plot flawed then?

 

[lucas1701]

Isn't a more pertinent question how the Enterprise managed to beam anyone from Saturn orbit to Earth? Even Enterprise-D transporters didn't have that kind of range.

The Saturn system is a billion miles and 2.5 light-hours away from Earth. A transporter beam should not be able to travel faster than light, therefore the whole scenario was absurd.

Unless they utilised the 'transwarp-beaming' formula, and in inventing this rather clumsy plot-device, JJ Abrams has inadvertently made all Starships obsolete!!!

Don't worry, it will be totally forgotten about in the next movie. Surely there will be a "We can't beam them back, we are out of range." line somewhere.


Orci and Kurtzman can't imagine distances they were dealing with, can they? 3 minutes from Earth to Vulcan, instant beaming from Delta Vega to a ship moving at warp, the Kelvin being 75,000 kilometers away from the Klingon border (wtf, like only a second at full impulse), beaming from Titan to Earth through the Narada's shields...

Yeah, yeah, speed of plot, I know. If someone wrote a story set in Manhattan, would you say it's reasonable if he got from Brooklyn to Staten Island in a car in just a minute? Because the plot requires it? Isn't the plot flawed then?

Agreed. 75,000 km from the Klingon border is ON the border. its practically in visual range. Transwarp cheating (sorry- beaming) is one of the things I disliked the most about the movie. Hate it hate it hate it.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

Unless they utilised the 'transwarp-beaming' formula, and in inventing this rather clumsy plot-device, JJ Abrams has inadvertently made all Starships obsolete!!!

The Dominion's transporters were capable of beaming people from a distance of at least three light years away.

Also this isn't the first time such plot devices have been used, you have ones like the the subspace transporter from the TNG season seven episode "Bloodlines". That had a range of about several light years, though was unreliable if I recall correctly. There was also the folded-space transporter from the TNG episode "The High Ground". A similar device was seen being used in the Voyager episode "Prime Factors".

Much like these examples the new transporter ability will soon be forgotten about in no time.

 

[JarodRussell]

Unless they utilised the 'transwarp-beaming' formula, and in inventing this rather clumsy plot-device, JJ Abrams has inadvertently made all Starships obsolete!!!

The Dominion's transporters were capable of beaming people from a distance of at least three light years away.

Also this isn't the first time such plot devices have been used, you have ones like the the subspace transporter from the TNG season seven episode "Bloodlines". That had a range of about several light years, though was unreliable if I recall correctly. There was also the folded-space transporter from the TNG episode "The High Ground". A similar device was seen being used in the Voyager episode "Prime Factors".

Much like these examples the new transporter ability will soon be forgotten about in no time.

Only that Voyager and Next Generation take place 100 years after TOS. And even then it was very unusual technology.


I was already face palming when all Scotty had to do was to enter a little "formula" so his little transporter was able to beam them across several lightyears on a ship moving at warp. So the hardware and power source were fully capable of doing that already or what? That's nonsense. When you want to boost the transmission range of a signal, you need to build a more powerful antenna for that. And in the case of beaming, you need to know where you are beaming to. So when you have a sensor that can detect stuff in a 1,000 km range, you will need to build a completely new sensor to be able to detect anything in a 1,000,000 km range. You can't do that by simply applying a new algorithm. The hardware needs to be heavily modified.

 

[Jeri]

During Scott's initial longsuffering sandwich lament upon meeting two Federation officers, he went on and on about Admiral Archer's beagle -- and in the process said it was easy to beam something from one planet to another. He used a grapefruit as an example. This claim was separate from transwarp beaming.

 

[Tom Servo]

Well perhaps this happened:

Spock gives scotty the formula for transwarp beaming. While Scotty looked at if for a few seconds, I doubt he was able to memorize the whole thing. Spock beams Scotty and Kirk to the Enterprise, and then deletes the formula and related materials from that shuttles computer.

The beaming technique used by Scotty to get Kirk and Spock to the Narada was a totally different type then the type used to get Scotty and Kirk on the Enterprise. That one didn't require future information.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

I understand the warping into Titan was done to 'hide' from the Narada. Once there, they had to beam into the ship. If the drill was activated, transporters would not work. Hence, the assumption that shields may have to be lowered as the drill is being lowered or in preparation for drilling. I would think that otherwise shields would be up, even if on low alert...

Well, that and it gave us that nice reminder of "Sulu, Z minus 10,000 meters." when she broke through the ring material.

 

[lucas1701]

The beaming technique used by Scotty to get Kirk and Spock to the Narada was a totally different type then the type used to get Scotty and Kirk on the Enterprise. That one didn't require future information.

Yet the laws of physics demand that transporters are limited by the speed of light. They convert matter into energy, and beam it at the speed of light to its destination, where it rematerialises. The Saturn system is light-hours from Earth- so there is no way a normal transporter could do the job, without some kind of special future tinkering.

 

[Jeri]

If Scotty says he already knew how to do it with a grapefruit, then future-tinkering was not necessary. Present tinkering sufficed.