Spoilers Batwoman - Season 1

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by dodge, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not to nitpick, but that last "I'm not about to let a man take credit for a woman's work" line kinda sums up why this character never sat right with me in the comics.
    I mean...she's literally wearing his suit, using his name, building off his image and reputation. Kinda hard to go swinging around the "I'm my own person" attitude in that scenario without coming off a little conceited and insecure, no?

    Of course it's entirely possible that line is being taken out of context in the trailer. I hope it is because I really want this show to be good.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not at all. Everyone builds on the work of others -- our parents, our teachers, our forerunners in our fields. What makes our achievements our own is what we add to the foundations we build on. Shakespeare based all his plays on pre-existing stories, but changed them into something very new. Elvis Presley and others took the existing forms of gospel, country, and blues and built a new music genre from them. Stan Lee worked with well-established comic-book genres and tropes but found new ways to combine them into something greater. Heck, even Batman was a ripoff of the Shadow to begin with.

    Besides, it seems clear from the trailer that she initially adopts the Batman costume out of convenience, and dislikes the fact that it burdens her with his image and reputation, so she transforms it in order to form her own reputation. It's not so much an imitation of Batman's image as a response to it, a deconstruction of it (almost literally). She's not trying to subordinate himself to his image like Batgirl did -- she's taking possession of his image and remaking it in her own.
     
  3. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This isn't someone taking inspiration and putting their own personal spin on it, or honouring a forebearer. It's literally adopting, if not co-opting an established brand (for lack of a better term) soup to nuts. You don't get to do that and them complain about people mistaking you for the person you're literally dressing up as. That would be like an Elvis impersonator getting salty about the real Elvis hogging the spotlight. It's nonsensical.

    Again, it's not the concept of the character that bugs me, it's the execution. It makes her seem insecure and honestly, kinda petty.
     
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  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Sometimes people try things that turn out to be mistakes, then they try something different. That's obviously the case here. The reworked Batman costume is her rough draft, she's unsatisfied with the result, so she revises that. It's unfair to shame someone for making a mistake that they obviously recognize as a mistake and choose to correct.
     
  5. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that's not at all how it's presented in that trailer. Try again.
     
  6. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    That's exactly how it's presented. The trailer shows her in Bruce's suit, then she says the 'I am my own person' stuff, and then it cuts to the shot in her own suit.

    It's like someone taking over their parents' restaurant and keeping the name but getting a new sign out front, redecorating, and making changes to the menu.
     
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  7. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    In the trailer she says that she's not going to let a man take credit for her work. Thing is, who gives a shit about credit? I thought she's trying to help people... Supergirl had the same issue in season 1, when she told Superman that she needed space to become her own hero. WTF does that mean?
     
  8. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I'm thinking that whole exchange about not letting a man take credit for a woman's work thing is after she goes out in his suit, and everyone thinks she's Batman. So after that she probably gets frustrated that she didn't get credit for whatever she did, and decides to change to a new suit or a more drastically altered Batman suit in order to make it clear she's not him.

    I'm glad they're not going with the extremely pale look she has in the comics, that looks weird in the comics already, and would look ridiculous in live action.
    Isn't Alice also somehow related to her in the comics?
     
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  9. dodge

    dodge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This.
    And that's pretty much the best one can do to explain how she ends up bat-themed without the obvious "because Batman is a super popular character and people just love characters based on him"

    She's her twin sister.
     
  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Kang, now with ridges Premium Member

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    The Kate Kane Batwoman wasn't created until 2006.
    Sort of. Grant Morrison brought back Kathy Kane, who is married to Nathan Kane the brother of Martha and Jacob Kane. She's also an agent of Spyral and the Headmistress of St. Hadrian's Finishing School For Girls.
     
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  11. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Also, not to get on too much of a side tangent with all this, it looks decent, definitely going to check it out when the time comes.

    I think that might be the case. The line is kind of weird otherwise, would she be OK with taking credit for another woman? EDIT: or other way around as the case may be...
     
  12. Soong-type Android

    Soong-type Android Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah... might have been better for her to have designed her own bat suit as she would be seen to be more credibly forming and owning her identity rather that appropriating someone else's. It would add to the heroic angle of stepping up after Batman disappears.
     
  13. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it's not like she and that kid (Lucas?) had a lot of time and or resources to create a whole new suit.

    Ain't broke, don't fix it. And all that.
     
  14. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

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    I think we're burying the lead here. Looks we are getting Alice as one of the villains.

    Without getting too spoilery, I wonder if Alice's background will be will be same in the TV series.
     
  15. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Don't know the Alice character from the comics but I was surprised she didn't look more "Wonderland" in the trailer.
     
  16. N-121973

    N-121973 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I know its a different universe but that was the whole point in the Dark Knight Trilogy, especially the Dark Knight Rises, that Batman was a symbol that could be worn by almost anyone. Heck that last seen showing Joseph Gordon Levitt in the Batcave implied that, even though physically he seemed shorter and slimmer than either Christian Bale or Ben Affleck, he could carry it off. As long as she keeps to the shadows, moves quickly and if required to speak disguised her voice, as Bale/Affleck & on Arrow Stephen Amell does, who'd be any the wiser?
     
  17. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Kang, now with ridges Premium Member

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    Alice has a particular look in the comics
     
  18. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Cool. I love to see those idiots 'splode.
    :guffaw:

    Yeah, okay, there was a bit of the famous Supergirl subtlety at work there.
     
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  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't know if they have any connection to the comics, but it'd be cool if having Alice as the primary villain might mean we'll see the Mad Hatter. There are also Tweedledee & Tweedledum, who were the first Batman villains based on Lewis Carroll. I think Paul Dini wrote some Batman comics assembling a whole team of Wonderland-based villains.
     
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  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes.

    "Alice" is really Kate's twin sister Beth.