Spoilers Batwoman - Season 1

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'm glad the majority of you seemed to like it... I found it meh, with a lot of questions...
Like: 1. How does a multi-billion dollar company just disappear in three years?

A number of ways: the CEO could simply close the doors, sell off stock, etc., Or maybe it was on the decline and ready to vanish like the ever-nasty Subway franchise.

3. Kate had NO idea that the love of her life had gotten married? Like, she still has feelings for her, the woman works at her company, she comes at the drop of a hat when she goes missing, but, she never bothered to check her Facebook status?

Plot Convenience 101, Part One: the series is trying to set up a triangle, but that would make Kate seem immoral / predatory (breaking up a marriage), while having the negative effect of making Sophie seem like an uncaring user, and there's no way her husband should end up saying something along the lines of, "You know...I always knew this was not real / what you wanted. If leaving me for Kate makes you happy, then I'm happy.."

5. Speaking of plans, is this the first time Alice appeared? Because it sure felt like it, and at the same time, no one was like, "Hey, there's a new super villain in town!" And why does Alice want to rule Gotham? Like, why? I get why she wants revenge on Dad, but...

In Alice's defense, a single crime leader wanting to "rule" a city is a long-lived comic book trope.. but its never held much water IF its not based on real world crime lords, who psychologically invest in corruption and profit form moral decay (like the 18th Street, La Eme gangs, et al.), otherwise, what is the purpose? To sit on a throne and...be "eeeevil" and controlling for no logical reason? At present, she is motivated by her hatred of her father, and hopes to rope Kate into her ranks, but "ruling a city is one of those tropes that should be quietly swept away, replaced by another kind of criminal interest.

6. And speaking of super villains, when Batman left, they all left too? Sure, they won't really be able to use the Penguin, but, he always struck me as someone who was in it for power and money rather than a personal fight with Batman, like the Joker.

I do not expect any of Batman's A-listers to show up, so the series will need to rely on Alice, which is okay, because she's sadistic / bitter enough to become an interesting problem down the road, whether she exploits Kate's family issues or not.

7. Are the Crows any good at their job? Like, did they clean up Gotham? Or have they only been able to maintain the status quo? Because, they didn't seem all that great. Sure, there was an inside man for Alice, but...

Ahh. I thought about that--and its Plot Convenience 101, Part Two in the sense that the established authority must appear weak / ineffectual in order the justify the actions / involvement of the series lead. That kind of plotting has to be dropped, otherwise the Crows will seem as useless and Commissioner Gordon and Chief O'Hara from the 1966-68 Batman TV series, where they could not cross the street without ending up relying on Batman & Robin..

I also sort of wish the fight scenes were different than the usual slug fests than we get lately. They're fine. But, I guess I wish, some how, and I don't have an idea, that Kate fought smarter rather than just as hard. But, it was basically, punch punch punch, kick kick kick. Meh.

Well, that's a problem with most Berlanti series--its all so much an obvious, count-hen-punch, count-then-kick series of stunts, like a show at an amusement park, and that never comes off as real or painful for the characters. On the opposite end, in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, the entire sequence of Batman's fight with Luthor's thugs (when rescuing Martha) was spectacular in that the choreography was not obvious, so the fight was fantastic, brutal and felt like bones were being broken.
Batman had his own form of combat--perfectly comic accurate--which was not the case for Kane's fights. If you don't have an advantage with a style that is unique, eventually, opponents (particularly those who are well trained) will have your number. That should be explored in upcoming episodes, as she's not really showing anything that would set her apart from others in a fight.

 

[Professor Zoom]

A number of ways: the CEO could simply close the doors, sell off stock, etc., Or maybe it was on the decline and ready to vanish like the ever-nasty Subway franchise.

That's how a CEO would get rid of THEIR stock. That doesn't make a company disappear. That just transfers ownership of company.

Of course, this is assuming Wayne Enterprises is a public company, which is seems to be in other media. There's a Board of Directors, that's only needed in a company that's publicly traded. It wouldn't necessarily be Wayne's company to just shudder.

But, let's say he had. What a fucking ASSHOLE. ALLLLL of those people lost their fucking jobs if Wayne just closed the company. Talk about sticking it to the people.

In Alice's defense, a single crime leader wanting to "rule" a city is a long-lived comic book trope.. but its never held much water IF its not based on real world crime lords, who psychologically invest in corruption and profit form moral decay (like the 18th Street, La Eme gangs, et al.), otherwise, what is the purpose? To sit on a throne and...be "eeeevil" and controlling for no logical reason? At present, she is motivated by her hatred of her father, and hopes to rope Kate into her ranks, but "ruling a city is one of those tropes that should be quietly swept away, replaced by another kind of criminal interest.

Alice wanting to take over the city is so boring and overused, as you said, that it's just... meh. It lacks stakes to me, because it's been done to death. It doesn't feel specific. It feels like the writer's hand saying, "here are some stakes!" Meh.

I do not expect any of Batman's A-listers to show up, so the series will need to rely on Alice, which is okay, because she's sadistic / bitter enough to become an interesting problem down the road, whether she exploits Kate's family issues or not.

I don't either and that wasn't my point. Batman fought a long war on crime against a group of Crazy Pants and to not acknowledge where they went, even if it turns out not the real reason, seems like turning a blind eye and hoping the audience won't notice either.

Ahh. I thought about that--and its Plot Convenience 101, Part Two in the sense that the established authority must appear weak / ineffectual in order the justify the actions / involvement of the series lead. That kind of plotting has to be dropped, otherwise the Crows will seem as useless and Commissioner Gordon and Chief O'Hara from the 1966-68 Batman TV series, where they could not cross the street without ending up relying on Batman & Robin..

I don't care if they were useless or amazing. The lack of specificity is my problem. Make them amazing, but, there's a terrible cost to that amazing, that would justify Batwoman. Her father isn't such a good guy in the comics.

That's my over all problem with the pilot, it's not very specific in it's choices. It sorta just exists as a lump of Bat stuff. It's fine, but... eh.

Well, that's a problem with most Berlanti series--its all so much an obvious, count-hen-punch, count-then-kick series of stunts, like a show at an amusement park, and that never comes off as real or painful for the characters. On the opposite end, in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, the entire sequence of Batman's fight with Luthor's thugs (when rescuing Martha) was spectacular in that the choreography was not obvious, so the fight was fantastic, brutal and felt like bones were being broken.
Batman had his own form of combat--perfectly comic accurate--which was not the case for Kane's fights. If you don't have an advantage with a style that is unique, eventually, opponents (particularly those who are well trained) will have your number. That should be explored in upcoming episodes, as she's not really showing anything that would set her apart from others in a fight.

I don't fault the TV show that though. A big budget movie is going to have the time and the money to create amazing action scenes, and then more money for reshoots. A TV show isn't going to have that.

The TV show is doing the work they can on a TV production schedule that movie people would freak out about. So, I give more props to the TV stunt people.

 

[Marc]

That's how a CEO would get rid of THEIR stock. That doesn't make a company disappear. That just transfers ownership of company.

Of course, this is assuming Wayne Enterprises is a public company, which is seems to be in other media. There's a Board of Directors, that's only needed in a company that's publicly traded. It wouldn't necessarily be Wayne's company to just shudder.

But, let's say he had. What a fucking ASSHOLE. ALLLLL of those people lost their fucking jobs if Wayne just closed the company. Talk about sticking it to the people.

I'm not that familiar with the comics but from some of the novels the general idea is that Bruce Wayne is a total klutz and CEO in name only and that its the people he's hired like Lucius Fox who really run the show and keep Wayne Enterprises afloat.

 

[JD]

I've always found the fight scenes on the Arrowverse shows really impressive. Now they obviously aren't going to be at the level of movies like The Winter Soldier, or BvS, but they're some of the best I've seen on TV on a regular basis. The only shows that did it better on a regular basis were Into The Badlands and Daredevil.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Thanks to the Suicide Squad and League of Assassins arcs over on Arrow and the names dropped at Arkham Asylum during the Elseworlds crossover, we know that pretty much all of the major names in Batman's rogues gallery are already either dead or in custody. The inference for me at least was, that like Batman, their stories are over and done. I wouldn't mind seeing the likes of the Penguin or the Riddler or Catwoman show up on Batwoman, but I would be equally okay with seeing the show form its own rogues gallery.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Selina as a love interest could be fun.

 

[DigificWriter]

The fact that we've already seen that a lot of Batman's biggest villains are incarcerated in Arkham means that there's the potential for those villains to show up on this show by escaping and coming after Kate.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The fact that we've already seen that a lot of Batman's biggest villains are incarcerated in Arkham means that there's the potential for those villains to show up on this show by escaping and coming after Kate.

And, indeed, the "escape from the asylum" plot was part of Elseworlds. Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing classic Batman foes on Batwoman, but I think I would prefer that they be the exception, the special event, rather than the norm. Let the Batwoman show be identifiably a Batwoman show, rather then a surrogate Batman show.

 

[Christopher]

And, indeed, the "escape from the asylum" plot was part of Elseworlds. Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing classic Batman foes on Batwoman, but I think I would prefer that they be the exception, the special event, rather than the norm. Let the Batwoman show be identifiably a Batwoman show, rather then a surrogate Batman show.

Hear, hear. I lost interest in Gotham when it stopped trying to be about young Jim Gordon cleaning up the GCPD and became about piling on as many Batman villains as possible while Bruce Wayne was still a kid. Let the show be its own thing, not just another Batman show without Batman.

 

[DigificWriter]

Hear, hear. I lost interest in Gotham when it stopped trying to be about young Jim Gordon cleaning up the GCPD and became about piling on as many Batman villains as possible while Bruce Wayne was still a kid.

Then you never had interest in it because it was never anything else other than a series about "piling on as many Batman villains as possible while Bruce Wayne was still a kid".

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Easily the best Arrowverse pilot since Arrow itself.

I agree. This was a great start.

 

[Skipper]

Batwoman Is Getting Troll 1-Star Reviews Because People Don’t Have Anything Better to Do

 

[Tuskin38]

Then you never had interest in it because it was never anything else other than a series about "piling on as many Batman villains as possible while Bruce Wayne was still a kid".

Uh. No.

 

[DigificWriter]

Batwoman Is Getting Troll 1-Star Reviews Because People Don’t Have Anything Better to Do

And we should care because?

A bunch of "sweaty neckbeards" deliberately tanking a show's Rotten Tomatoes ranking means about as much as a certain real-life person's nonsensical rantings and attacks against anybody who disagrees with them (read: absolutely nothing).

Anyway, moving on, Rachel Skarsten debunked fan theories (without said theories even being brought up beforehand) that Jacob is aware of who Alice really is by saying “it’s less fun for her to play with Jacob when he doesn’t have the emotional investment in her. My father always used to say, ‘If someone has a hook in you, you have a hook in them.’ And that’s what makes it so explosive. So I think when Jacob looks at her just as a maniacal villain, he’s dealing with that in one way, but when it’s his daughter, how much more complex does that become for him?”

Uh. No.

Go back and find the official early descriptions of Gotham and listen to the creators talk about it.

It was never a secret that the series was going to be about Batman's villains showing up "while Bruce was still a kid", so nothing I said to Christopher was the least bit untrue.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Yeah, while I didn't like it, it's certainly not 1 star. That's some BULLshit.
And the reason we should care: Rotten Tomato scores matter now. People pay attention to the score and make decisions about how they are going to spend their time and money.

 

[Henoch]

That's how a CEO would get rid of THEIR stock. That doesn't make a company disappear. That just transfers ownership of company.

Of course, this is assuming Wayne Enterprises is a public company, which is seems to be in other media. There's a Board of Directors, that's only needed in a company that's publicly traded. It wouldn't necessarily be Wayne's company to just shudder.

But, let's say he had. What a fucking ASSHOLE. ALLLLL of those people lost their fucking jobs if Wayne just closed the company. Talk about sticking it to the people.

Maybe we only see the old Headquarter Building in the inner city shutdown (put into a trust so Wayne Industries or anyone else can't sell it off), and Wayne Industries is still being run from a new Headquarter Building in the suburbs. Do we have any info that Wayne Industries is really out of business?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Maybe we only see the old Headquarter Building in the inner city shutdown (put into a trust so Wayne Industries or anyone else can't sell it off), and Wayne Industries is still being run from a new Headquarter Building in the suburbs. Do we have any info that Wayne Industries is really out of business?

Thats exactly the problem. It’s unclear. To me, it appears to basically be defunct. But maybe not.

Its the lack of specificity that bugs the crap out of me.

 

[DEWLine]

I notice from the Crows Situation Room set that they're using another variant of Eliot Brown's 2000 post-"No Man's Land" map of Gotham. The outlines of the islands and mainland are recognizable. I suppose we're waiting now to see how much detail they want to add to their own version of the city.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

but I would be equally okay with seeing the show form its own rogues gallery.

Let the Batwoman show be identifiably a Batwoman show, rather then a surrogate Batman show.

Agreed; dragging another characters villains and story arc into a new series smacks of showrunners pretty much admitting their concept cannot stand on its own. Hopefully, that is not he case with Batwoman.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Batwoman has more of an individualized Rogues Gallery than, say, Supergirl, but it's not large enough to sustain an ongoing series on its own, especially if said series follows the pattern of the other Arrowverse series by being somewhat of a "monster of the week"-type show.