Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion

[Phily B]

Newsflash! Movie makes $538 million in seven days... considered massive failure by internet.

You're failing to see the bigger picture there, they've put everything behind this movie to try launch their "cinematic universe". DC have thrown all their main players into a movie and it's potentially failing to hit the 1 billion mark and gotten trashed in word of mouth and by critics. Why would anyone see an Aquaman movie? A Flash movie? Or a Cyborg movie? Or even a Wonder Woman movie after this? They're all B or C team players. How can they give one of these movies the typical 200m budget, keep the same tone and expect people to see it?

ASM2 was considered a big enough failure to just give the character to Marvel and that movie made 700m. It's not the internet who'd consider it a failure, but the studio - I've read from movie bloggers who are usually fairly reliable that WB expects over a billion. They already appear to be panicking over Suicide Squad as a result, as well as negative screen tests.

 

[ancient]

There is no doubt that studio expectations are high - they used their two biggest characters in one movie AND used the 'heroes fighting' gimmick.

 

[Set Harth]

For some reason they seem to have stopped TV advertising. Is that a thing now - just keep the ads going until opening weekend and then give up?

I just really, really, don't like how they're doing Superman. He's too glum and uninspiring and doesn't really seem to be trying to do much to motivate people to be good and I really, really, could have done without the (biblical) savior/Jesus imagery.

Well, that's Jesus for you: too glum and uninspiring, didn't really seem to be trying to do much to motivate people to be good.

 

[Mach5]

BvS reportedly grossed $15 million on Friday, way below the early studio estimate (18.5 mil.).

400 million DOM isn't happening.

 

[Mr Light]

Do movies usually get advertised after opening weekend? I'd never noticed that before... though to be fair I DVR and fast forward through all my commercials...

 

[dahj]

Why would anyone see an Aquaman movie? A Flash movie? Or a Cyborg movie? Or even a Wonder Woman movie after this? They're all B or C team players.

By that reasoning MCU would never have existed...

Even if BvS underperforms there's no going back.
Will WB be sad that they didn't make more money. Likely.
Will they scrap their future plans because of it. Highly unlikely.

The next two films are Suicide Squad which has generated a lot of buzz even among people who don't watch comic book movies , and Wonder Woman who was a highlight of BvS even for a large number of people who hated the movie. Both have a good starting position regardless of BvS backlash.

I don't see them backing out of Justice League neither, it starts shooting in the next few weeks and is reportedly lighter in tone. Risking another underperforming movie is still financially better than delaying their entire slate.

 

[JacksonArcher]

It might be a stretch for Dawn of Justice to reach $1 billion worldwide. I kinda figured second weekend would have a steep drop-off, but nearly 70% is pretty damn steep. Comparably speaking, Star Wars: The Force Awakens had a 40% drop-off during its second weekend, Jurassic World had a 49% drop-off and The Avengers had a 50% drop-off.

$50-58 million is also considerably lower than a lot of other blockbusters have made in their second weekend - The Dark Knight, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3, The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, etc. - all made over $70 million during their second weekend. Yes, DoJ is actually tracking in to pull less than the $58 million estimate now. Which means Dawn of Justice might have a difficult time reaching $400 million domestic. That will prove troublesome if the movie wants to reach $1 billion. The film will definitely be considered a disappointment if the film doesn't reach and/or surpass $1 billion, especially with the poor reception from critics and the decidedly mixed reaction from fans.

However, WB has doubled down on their DC Extended Universe slate. Snyder is set to helm Justice League: Part 1 in a manner of weeks, however I've heard WB plans to be a lot more involved this time around. Don't expect him to return for Part II if things progress like this financially. However, Suicide Squad is still scheduled for this August (studio tinkering aside) and Wonder Woman is in production, so if anything the (possibly) poor performance of Dawn of Justice might affect other standalone movies like Aquaman or The Flash, but other movies like Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman are well underway.

I can see WB possibly scrapping plans for Justice League: Part II and fast-tracking a Ben Affleck Batman film to replace it, given how Affleck has been praised for his portrayal of Bruce Wayne/Batman in DoJ. You can bet your ass WB is panicking, though. So final outcome of worldwide DoJ gross aside, there could be some major changes in store for the DCEU.

Edit: Dawn of Justice just had the biggest Friday-to-Friday drop-off of any comic-book movie. Yeah, things aren't looking up for DC's biggest heroes at the BO.

 

[Captaindemotion]

To a certain extent, films like this are critic-proof and will always open huge. However, poor reviews and word-of-mouth tend to put off casual or on-the-fence cinema goers, while it doesn't seem to be getting the repeat viewing that has pushed movies like The Dark Knight, The Force Awakens etc into the mega-bucks league. So it seems to me, anyway (though I'm planning to go again with a friend who hasn't seen it yet).

 

[lurok]

That Wonder Woman music theme/motif is great
I've been pondering since watching film, and online reviews like Kevin Smith's (who I largely agree with) whether my dream alternative Luthors might have worked better in context of this storyline and dynamic?
That's Cranston and Strong.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ Either would've been good but Strong as the bad guy is a little cliched IMHO. Cranston would obviously be brilliant but I would've preferred to see him as Jim Gordon.

I'd have preferred Eisenberg's performance if they'd let him tone it down and be less quirky and tic-driven. Something like Michael Rosenbaum in early Smallville - an ambiguous, likeable character who genuinely believed himself to be the hero in this story.

 

[lurok]

Yeah, I'm not anti-Eisenberg by any stretch, and agree re: Strong and Cranston. Just wondering if given script and/or Snyder's great-at-visual-but-hopeless-at-character-direction, either of alternatives might have brought something deeper to party.

 

[Commander Richard]

I've always wanted Billy Zane as Luthor. What a missed opportunity.

 

[lurok]

I can see that. Though think he would have been perfect in Schumacher era

 

[davejames]

The Wonder Woman theme is on YouTube.

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Sigh. If only the entire movie could have been as thrilling and exciting as that WW theme.

 

[davejames]

You're failing to see the bigger picture there, they've put everything behind this movie to try launch their "cinematic universe". DC have thrown all their main players into a movie and it's potentially failing to hit the 1 billion mark and gotten trashed in word of mouth and by critics. Why would anyone see an Aquaman movie? A Flash movie? Or a Cyborg movie? Or even a Wonder Woman movie after this? They're all B or C team players. How can they give one of these movies the typical 200m budget, keep the same tone and expect people to see it?

ASM2 was considered a big enough failure to just give the character to Marvel and that movie made 700m. It's not the internet who'd consider it a failure, but the studio - I've read from movie bloggers who are usually fairly reliable that WB expects over a billion. They already appear to be panicking over Suicide Squad as a result, as well as negative screen tests.

I agree it looks really bad for BvS (such a huge dropoff in the second weekend without any competition whatsoever? Yikes), but I think audiences will still be willing to give the other DC movies a shot. I think they understand this is just one movie and the issue is much more with this particular story and director than with the overall tone or direction of the DC universe.

And I thought I heard the early Suicide Squad reaction was really good? Didn't realize things had changed so much on that (although to be fair, the early BvS reaction was really good as well, and we all know how that turned out...)

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ The idea that WB could pull together the cast and crew of Suicide Squad (not to mention presumably writing up new dialogue and scenes) at a handful of days' notice, because of negative reaction to BvS, has been widely debunked. These reshoots have been planned for some time and the timing is coincidental.

 

[Mr Light]

They're not going to cancel Justice League 2 JL1 is going to be nothing more than a set up for the Darkseid invasion.

 

[Skellington]

B- . Very good movie that has only partial success in mining its potential. Could have done with more humour, too.

Good performances from Cavill, Affleck, Gadot, Irons and Eisenberg. In Irons' case, I think we have our most authentic big-screen Alfred to date. And Wonder Woman was pitched just right, from the theme tune and visual style to the accent; kind of makes me want to sneak off and see her solo movie in 2017.

In giving the movie a rather sober tone, I think Zack Snyder et al decided to follow their muse rather than pander to commercial interests or make kid-friendliness the driving force. I can respect that, but maybe they should have swung it a little in the other direction and made something geared a little more toward their younger selves.

 

[Set Harth]

Don't expect him to return for Part II if things progress like this financially.

For all his perceived faults, Snyder is a director with a certain recognizable style. I'd hate to see him replaced by some generic, workmanlike director who takes no chances and turns out something stylistically unremarkable.

 

[Samurai8472]

^ That's Affleck and yes, he fits the part.

Oh wow. Sorry I don't know how I saw AFFLECK in your post. I thought you were talking about Affleck



Given its initial Friday gross of $53.9 million (discounting the $27.7 million from Thursday night), this is how BvS has compared each day with a hypothetical "normal" box office run based off of the day-to-day changes from Furious 7 and Clash of the Titans.

Saturday: 109.2% of normal
Sunday: 107.3% of normal
Monday: 107.8% of normal
Tuesday: 100.6% of normal
Wednesday: 87.4% of normal
Thursday: 89.8% of normal

If Deadline's estimate of $18.5 million today holds true, that would be 98.9% of normal.