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Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie...


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If you couldn't figure out Lex's motivation for most of his actions, you weren't paying attention.

Re: Kevin Smith, his own previous comments regarding BvS bely the idea that he hadn't seen or been aware of the film's take on both Batman and Superman prior to its official release.

Don't be mean, Digfic, be helpful.

Explain what you think Lex Luthor's motivations were, what his plans were, and how he was supposed to walk away from anything that we saw with out being branded public enemy number one?

Personally I think that his plan was evolving as the story continued, and what ever safe haven perfect crime he had foreseen for himself months earlier was sabotaged by his own insanity and sacrificing himself was okay, as long as him message was delivered. However if he was insane, why isn't Luthor in a funny farm?

Yes, I heard all that stuff about proving that gods were demons that heroes were villians and it directly related to conversations we didn't see between Lex and his father, and Lex was hell bent to prove his fathers moral compass and religion wrong, even though Aliens are not gods, and almost no one thought that Superman was an Angel, but yes that was fricking subtext about his childhood, and he's a grown ass man who should be on medication and have a couple therapists to deal with that shit.

If above is what was guiding him, the missing scene that would pull the movie together was 8 year old Lex Luthor being forced to look at the painting of paradise lost while his father whipped or raped him for being a sinner while manically screaming bible quotes about the power of the lord to deliver sinners... Which wasn't even hinted at.

Although the Luthors had to have done something silly, for their son to have murdered them.
 
If you couldn't figure out Lex's motivation for most of his actions, you weren't paying attention.
I had more problems with his plans than his motivations. For someone who is supposed to be smart, he sure comes up with some stupid ideas. How could he ever think that the "I'll kill your mother" plan would end in anything other than misery for himself?
 
I had more problems with his plans than his motivations. For someone who is supposed to be smart, he sure comes up with some stupid ideas. How could he ever think that the "I'll kill your mother" plan would end in anything other than misery for himself?

He's a narcissist who thinks he's so much smarter than everyone else and believes he's backed Bruce and Clark into an inescapable corner.
 
Kevin Smith's opinion is of litte value; he is packaged as some "expert" on all things comic books--while as a filmmaker (his alleged job) has no place to judge. He's still living off of this manufactured "geek cred" from the early 1990s, while cobbling together largely forgettable comics. For a so-called filmmaker so in love with comics, one wonders why he never petitioned to have his name is attached to any of the big DC movie productions planned for release well into the next decade (an episode of The Flash does not count), since he has a professional relationship with DC & Marvel. Instead, all he's scheduled to contribute to the film universe (if you can all it a contribution) is Mallbrats, (yes, brats) Clerks III and Hollyweed.

If you listen to his review on "Fatman on Batman" (which somehow I doubt you will) he agrees with everything you're saying. He knows his limits. He knows he's not comparable to Snyder and could not have made the movie and he's said he'd be too scared to take the task on. (though he is directing a Flash)
 
believes he's backed Bruce and Clark into an inescapable corner.
In what way has he backed Bruce into a corner?

As for Superman, how can Lex expect to come out okay? Either Superman kills Batman or he doesn't. Either way, Lex is gonna get his ass handed to him by Superman once that is over. Remember the way Supes treated Zod when he was just talking to Martha? What happens to the guy who kidnapped her, abused her, and threatened to kill her?
 
Even if Batman and Supes would kill eachother, Lex will be killed by Doomsday...
 
For a so-called filmmaker so in love with comics, one wonders why he never petitioned to have his name is attached to any of the big DC movie productions planned for release well into the next decade (an episode of The Flash does not count), since he has a professional relationship with DC & Marvel. Instead, all he's scheduled to contribute to the film universe (if you can all it a contribution) is Mallbrats, (yes, brats) Clerks III and Hollyweed.
Not that I am some big Kevin Smith defender, as I think the quality of his work has suffered since he became a stoner, but he was attached to a comic book property early on. The Weinstein's offered him Green Hornet, and he worked on it for a while, but ultimately pulled out because he felt his directorial style could not pull off the action sequences that would be required for a comic book film. The Weinstein's offered to surround him with a great team (DP, 2nd unit director, etc) to help him out and guide him, but he still decided to pull out. He knew his limitations.
 
BvS passed $530 million. So $600 million by the weekend, and $650 by the ens od the weekend is likely.
 
Not that I am some big Kevin Smith defender, as I think the quality of his work has suffered since he became a stoner, but he was attached to a comic book property early on. The Weinstein's offered him Green Hornet, and he worked on it for a while, but ultimately pulled out because he felt his directorial style could not pull off the action sequences that would be required for a comic book film. The Weinstein's offered to surround him with a great team (DP, 2nd unit director, etc) to help him out and guide him, but he still decided to pull out. He knew his limitations.
I don't really care what Smith says, but since everyone posted his "review" it's odd no one posted his retraction:

http://comicbook.com/2016/03/31/kevin-smith-found-the-heart-in-batman-v-superman-on-his-second-v/
 
Not that I am some big Kevin Smith defender, as I think the quality of his work has suffered since he became a stoner, but he was attached to a comic book property early on. The Weinstein's offered him Green Hornet, and he worked on it for a while, but ultimately pulled out because he felt his directorial style could not pull off the action sequences that would be required for a comic book film. The Weinstein's offered to surround him with a great team (DP, 2nd unit director, etc) to help him out and guide him, but he still decided to pull out. He knew his limitations.

I remember the Green Hornet incident, and thought he--"Mr. All Things Comics"-- was a coward for backing away when he had a wealth of support that would have helped his shape TGH and support whatever he wanted to do with it. As a result, the property eventually fell into the hands of Seth Rogen (of all people), which turned TGH into a bad, horribly miscast joke for a generation. The damage might be permanent.
 
I had more problems with his plans than his motivations. For someone who is supposed to be smart, he sure comes up with some stupid ideas. How could he ever think that the "I'll kill your mother" plan would end in anything other than misery for himself?

I actually had no real problem with Lex's motivation (it seemed obvious enough that his distrust of Superman came from having a powerful and abusive father, which is something he does allude to at one point), and his plans didn't seem any worse than what we usually see in superhero movies.

For me it was just the annoying voice and mannerisms that Eisenberg chose to use that were the problem. I'm a big fan of the actor (and have no huge attachment to the austere businessman Lex like others on here), but his cartoonish performance just didn't seem to fit the style of the movie at all and became kinda grating to watch after awhile.
 
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See it! And bring beer.

( I say this from a place of utter hypocrisy as I considered sneaking in beer but I chickened out because I was afraid someone would tattle on me. )

Or go to one of those new upscale theaters that has microbrews and real food!

Kor
 
That's your standard for a good film?

I now see why you seem to hate TNG...

No, that's my standard for a blockbuster action movie that I go watch at the local multiplex.

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm more than happy to go to a film festival or an arthouse theater to watch something more profound and insightful. Some of my most favorite films are extremely drawn out and slow-paced (and might be described by many as "pretentious").

But this is a totally different kind of experience. :shrug:

Kor
 
No, that's my standard for a blockbuster action movie that I go watch at the local multiplex.

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm more than happy to go to a film festival or an arthouse theater to watch something more profound and insightful. Some of my most favorite films are extremely drawn out and slow-paced (and might be described by many as "pretentious").

But this is a totally different kind of experience. :shrug:

Kor
Fair enough.

For me, I just couldn't overlook the massive problems in the direction and script, the dull as dishwasher pacing and its failure as a standalone film.

I understand where you're coming from though, we shouldn't expect much out of a movie called Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice :p
 
In Batman Begins, he literally blows up a building full of League members and a big beam falls on the fake Ra'as. This was just a couple seconds after refusing to execute a man, who I hope escaped the exploding building.
 
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In Batman Begins, he literally blows up a building full of League members and a big beam falls on the fake Ra'as. This was just a couple seconds after refusing to execute a man, who I hope escaped the exploding building.

Batman's "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you" schtick reminds me of this:

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If all those people in Ras's house (including the guy Bruce refused to execute) didn't make it out in time, it was their own fault. If Ras let himself get pinned under a beam and die, it was his own fault! :lol:

Kor
 
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