A gloomy, grumpy Bruce sharing scenes with a dour, glowering Clark? Nope, not really seeing the fun.
Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Batman - "When I saw my parents killed in front of me, I felt so helpless that I vowed then to become powerful enough to never let something like that happen to anybody else again."
Superman - "Huh. I won't tell you what happened to my father, then."
Do you think Superman should've made an attempt to save her life, and the rest of the people present, in the Senate building? Did you find it convenient a big story like Superman going to Capitol Hill, and Lois was not present inside to get the details?
Dunno. Superman said that he didn't look at the wheelchair, right? Having a fallible Superman is interesting, and it was also a relief to me that the tension in whether people were going to try to blame Superman for the bomb was dispelled fairly quickly. It eliminated drama quickly, which can be bad, but in this case it was drama of the sort that would have been a cliché, had it been stretched out, and drama that revolved around only a minor subplot. So, I was glad it was dispensed with.
On a larger note, however, I thought that the whole subplot of Lex trying to get the government to grant him a license to import the Kryptonite was pretty thin. Why create a paper trail for the Kryptonite with a license and all, if Luthor could smuggle it into the country in the first place? Seems like it might have drawn less specific suspicion to Lex, if he had simply stolen it in the first place. I also don't really see a good reason for the bomb in the first place. Finch could have been done in and all sorts of other ways that wouldn't have been traceable to Luthor at all. With that aspect changed, there would have been less motivation for the bomb, I think.
And Lex just threw Mercy under the bus?!? Don't get me wrong, Holly Hunter played that scene really well, but it just didn't make sense. Clearly, this is a diffrent sort of Lex Luthor, one who just likes watching the world burn, à la the Nolan Joker.
I get what you're saying though, I think. The "classic" Superman would have found a way to save everyone, and Lois would have been in danger, too. Would that have made it better? Dunno.
That was just an excuse though. Of course he could just smuggle it in. But he used that opportunity to instill doubt into government officials that Superman is a threat, present himself as knowledgeable on the matter and as a result gain access to the Kryptonian ship which he didn't have.
That bomb wasn't meant to take out Finch, it was meant to show the people Superman not being able to prevent a giant tragedy.
This Lex Luthor had only one goal, to destroy Superman both in the eyes of the public and literally and everything he did was a means to that end. Personally, I think both his motivation for it and his plan made sense and made him one of the more interesting villains.
Yeah, something being dark doesn't necessarily make it adult.
I was judging the bomb by the results. It didn't really serve the goal of instilling doubt in Superman. People didn't have any trouble figuring out that the bomb had been planted in the wheelchair by a madman and a terrorist. They just got it wrong which madman it was. Even if Superman couldn't save people, he wasn't really getting blamed for it.
I think that was really directed at Bruce. The guy being blamed was the guy who lost his legs thanks to Superman, and it looked like the bombing was a direct reaction to it, especially coupled with those returned paychecks. It might have been indirectly, but to Bruce, Superman was the cause of the bombing.
It was also a way of stopping the hearings. Luthor did not want the hearings, because Superman would have gotten the chance to explain himself to the people.
It was also a way of stopping the hearings. Luthor did not want the hearings, because Superman would have gotten the chance to explain himself to the people.
Those are good points. I suppose that even if Finch had gone along with Luthor, Luthor might have killed her anyway at the hearing. But on the other hand, if she had been willing to go along with him, maybe she would have acquiesced to a "request" from Lex not to have the hearing in the first place.
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something
Finch was getting paychecks from Wayne. Lex was rerouting them so they never got to Finch.
Otherwise why would Finch say "You let your family die" and not accept the paychecks?
Finch was getting paychecks from Wayne. Lex was rerouting them so they never got to Finch.
Otherwise why would Finch say "You let your family die" and not accept the paychecks?
Lex was also sending the "Your family die" letters. Why the guy never rang up Wayne Ent to ask where his checks were is beyond me. And the plan almost meant nothing because Bruce doesn't even see the letters until the last minute. Luckily for Lex's plan, Bruce became a paranoid maniac with less prodding than he expected.
Speaking of the bombing, that was the only scene in the movie where I felt like Superman was an unsympathetic figure. I really didn't like how he just stood there with his eyes closed after the bomb went off. I know the intention was that he was closing his eyes in shame/frustration/grief, but it came off more like he didn't give a shit.
Wrong, you interpret that entirely wrong. It plays exactly how you said it was trying to.
That would be a shame. IMO, Bryan Singer & the X-Men: First Class cast deserve better than that.
I thought that was one of Cavill's finest moments in either of the movies. It was nicely subdued, but you could feel the mix of anger, grief, and guilt behind his eyes as he stood there in the flames.
I think Lex found out Keefe blames Superman for his loss legs and is really angry. He somehow rerouted Keefe's paychecks to himself and wrote those notes like "You let your family DIE" on them. He probably send checks to Keefe so Keefe wouldn't think their was a problem, thus not notifying Wayne Enterprises of missing checks. It makes Keefe looked like he's mad at Bruce too, and crazy enough to try to kill Superman.
Batman and rest of the public are tricked into thinking...
- Keefe attempted to kill Superman with a suicide bomb attack
- Keefe kills lots of innocent people in the collatoral damage
- Superman doesn't care about human life since he failed save anyone.
- Nobody suspects Lex was involved since his employee, Mercy, died.
- The root cause of destruction and deaths is Superman
Results...
- Everyone thinks Keefe acted alone, so no one else is investigated
- Batman and part of the public is even more angry at Superman
- Senator Finch is out of Lex's way
- Superman blames himself and goes into self exiled, allowing Lex to continue his plans
A few more discussion points
I wonder if Lex thought the nuke launched at Superman and Doomsday will be enough to kill both of them. That way, both his enemy and his weapon is destroyed. Or maybe he is arrogant enough to think he can control Doomsday.
Clark Kent thought Batman is a dangerous criminal at first. He tried to get stop Batman as a reporter first, writing a story about him. Only after it fails, he tries as Superman. He only stops Batman in the middle of a destructive car chase and warns him to stop. He didn't capture him and turn him over to the police. He also turns off his super senses at times, like how his mom taught him. Superman didn't know about the Dia de la Muerta fire until he saw it on the news or about his mom's kidnapping.
Also someone posted an article saying Batman v Superman need make 1.15 billion dollars at the box office to match the earnings of Man of Steel. So...
MoS has a budget of $225 million with a world wide gross of $668 million.
BvS has a budget of $250 million with a world wide gross of $834 million (currently & still going up)
They say with all the home video, merchandise, etc factored in, BvS will have a $22 million less in profits. While I didn't add in the advertisement budget to the total, my question still remains...
Why does a film with a $25 million bigger budget need $480 million more in the box office to match earnings? An 11% increase in budget should make 172% in gross? How is that even possible? Was the BvS advertisment budget double that of MoS? Was it the overkill of product placements in MoS? How did they calculate BvS's home video, TV, and merchandise earnings? Did they estimate it will be around the same as MoS or much, much less?
Batman and rest of the public are tricked into thinking...
- Keefe attempted to kill Superman with a suicide bomb attack
- Keefe kills lots of innocent people in the collatoral damage
- Superman doesn't care about human life since he failed save anyone.
- Nobody suspects Lex was involved since his employee, Mercy, died.
- The root cause of destruction and deaths is Superman
Results...
- Everyone thinks Keefe acted alone, so no one else is investigated
- Batman and part of the public is even more angry at Superman
- Senator Finch is out of Lex's way
- Superman blames himself and goes into self exiled, allowing Lex to continue his plans
A few more discussion points
I wonder if Lex thought the nuke launched at Superman and Doomsday will be enough to kill both of them. That way, both his enemy and his weapon is destroyed. Or maybe he is arrogant enough to think he can control Doomsday.
Clark Kent thought Batman is a dangerous criminal at first. He tried to get stop Batman as a reporter first, writing a story about him. Only after it fails, he tries as Superman. He only stops Batman in the middle of a destructive car chase and warns him to stop. He didn't capture him and turn him over to the police. He also turns off his super senses at times, like how his mom taught him. Superman didn't know about the Dia de la Muerta fire until he saw it on the news or about his mom's kidnapping.
Also someone posted an article saying Batman v Superman need make 1.15 billion dollars at the box office to match the earnings of Man of Steel. So...
MoS has a budget of $225 million with a world wide gross of $668 million.
BvS has a budget of $250 million with a world wide gross of $834 million (currently & still going up)
They say with all the home video, merchandise, etc factored in, BvS will have a $22 million less in profits. While I didn't add in the advertisement budget to the total, my question still remains...
Why does a film with a $25 million bigger budget need $480 million more in the box office to match earnings? An 11% increase in budget should make 172% in gross? How is that even possible? Was the BvS advertisment budget double that of MoS? Was it the overkill of product placements in MoS? How did they calculate BvS's home video, TV, and merchandise earnings? Did they estimate it will be around the same as MoS or much, much less?
If that were the case, why does he complain in public about WayneEnt giving him nothing/never helping him? (I forget the exact wording.)