When I was a kid I disliked BR it because there was so little Batman during the first 30 minutes but now that I'm older I love it. I enjoy all the actors and the visuals. I wish that there was more Catwoman in the movie though.
Batman Returns
- Thread starter Dream
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When I was a kid I disliked BR it because there was so little Batman during the first 30 minutes but now that I'm older I love it. I enjoy all the actors and the visuals. I wish that there was more Catwoman in the movie though.
To each his own. I think Burton rarely has a grasp on what makes theme and characterization work. Characters need to evolve in a story, and I'm trying to see how Batman, for instance, evolved in Batman Returns. He was a pretty stagnant character in that movie. So was Max Shreck. I think Catwoman was the only real character whose character had a beginning, middle, and end. Then again I think she was really the only wholly developed character in the entire film.
Okay movie but when you look at more closely you notice the flaws
- At least Nolan used an actual city for Gotham instead of one big city square for 3/4's of the movie.
-The Batmobile clearly being a big empty shell for the "hydraulic jack" scene
- The final act and Batman coming in with another new vehicle to take down the villain.
This trend started with the Batwing then went on for another three movies. It's boring.
Batwing
Bat skiboat
Batwing and boat
Bat ice ski hammer thing
Batsnowmobile and Batgirl bike
- At least Nolan used an actual city for Gotham instead of one big city square for 3/4's of the movie.
-The Batmobile clearly being a big empty shell for the "hydraulic jack" scene
- The final act and Batman coming in with another new vehicle to take down the villain.
This trend started with the Batwing then went on for another three movies. It's boring.
Batwing
Bat skiboat
Batwing and boat
Bat ice ski hammer thing
Batsnowmobile and Batgirl bike
That's odd. I feel the same way.
As I said before, I see the whole movie as an exploration of Batman's psyche. The other characters each play a role in that regard, as does Gotham City itself. Does Max Shreck have an arc wherein he evolves as a character? No, but not all characters need such an arc, particularly fourth lead antagonists (and the notion that characters "need" to evolve is an obsession of modern screenwriting; a lot of older films, especially in plot-driven genres, had protagonists who didn't evolve to any significant degree, and many of them were fine films).
Batman, though, does have an arc in Batman Returns, one that takes him through a dark fairly tale - complete with the kind of grotesque, larger than life characters who populate fairly tales - that holds up reflections of various aspects of his dreams and nightmares and leads him from being a solitary man sitting at home grimly waiting for the bat signal to a man willing to expose his secret identity and walk away from the craziness with the woman he's come to love.
I really like the characters (the actors and how the bad guys all represented darkened aspects of Batman-an orphan, a rich man and a vigilante) and how the setting seems so otherworldly that it's timeless. The multi-layered sets and the somewhat episodic/serial nature were nicely comic bookish.
"Eat floor" and the Penguin just having the schematics to the Batmobile are the only things that really bug me.
Not much of a Burton fan aside from this film though. CatCF and Big Fish were mediocre, the first Batman (despite some good parts) and Sleepy Hollow worse.
I am a bit annoyed that The Dark Knight featured Batman as more of a supporting character yet got much less criticism in this regard.
But how interesting or different is a mobster who's just rude and has particular looks? To do a superhero movie where a main villain is just a normal guy seems underwhelming when there are a lot of good unusual villains (and BR's Penguin adapted some of the ideas of the Two-Face character, so it was kind of two-for-one).
"Eat floor" and the Penguin just having the schematics to the Batmobile are the only things that really bug me.
Not much of a Burton fan aside from this film though. CatCF and Big Fish were mediocre, the first Batman (despite some good parts) and Sleepy Hollow worse.
I am a bit annoyed that The Dark Knight featured Batman as more of a supporting character yet got much less criticism in this regard.
I also hated his version of The Penquin. The Penguin is supposed to be a short, fat, abbrasive, dapper, mob kingpin. Not a mutant that lives in the sewer.
But how interesting or different is a mobster who's just rude and has particular looks? To do a superhero movie where a main villain is just a normal guy seems underwhelming when there are a lot of good unusual villains (and BR's Penguin adapted some of the ideas of the Two-Face character, so it was kind of two-for-one).
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Bat JET Ski Boat, was the official name.
And the Batman Forever Batwing also just happened to covert into a mini-submarine.
Though, Dark Knight pulled a BAT MISSILE on us with the Batpod. Probably the more comic booky elements to that movie.
Michael Gough was a good sport...
http://pizzas-canceled.ytmnd.com/
I know no one is complaining about Batman having a bunch of vehicles and stuff. It is Batman. That is what Batman is all about. He has more stuff than just about anyone. Only people I can think of with more off the top of my head is Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic and Dr. Doom.
Just to counterbalance some of the Schumacher bashing in this thread, I just want to say that Phone Booth rocks!
While Nolan did a great job of using actual locations throughout Chicago to create a large, exciting canvas for his Batman movies, I think he failed to capture the spirit of Gotham City. I think Nolan's movies have better, more coherent plots than Burton's. However, to me, Batman isn't just about plot. It's also about mood. Batman doesn't belong in the real world. He belongs in a gothic Tim Burton nightmare. And while Nolan provides a plausible explanation for why Batman does what he does, I think that Burton's interpretation is far more likely. To do what he does in the way that he does it, Batman must be crazy. And while Nolan may not know it, some of his characters seem to. Rachel Dawes seemed to have Bruce's psychosis figured out pretty early on. And Bruce himself said, "Guy who dresses up like a bat clearly has issues."
Thank you. I've been waiting for someone else to notice that. I thought what made Batman Begins so special was that it was the first movie to really be about Bruce Wayne in a very overt way. The Dark Knight seemed to pull back from that, almost as if Nolan was embarrassed at having to include Batman in the story at all. It was like he just wanted to make a straight crime drama about Jim Gordon & Harvey Dent fighting the Joker.
I think that there are a lot of levels to the writing of Batman Returns that don't register until you're older. Black humor is definately my thing. I hope that we get to see this kind of sophisticated dialogue in a future Batman movie.
While Nolan did a great job of using actual locations throughout Chicago to create a large, exciting canvas for his Batman movies, I think he failed to capture the spirit of Gotham City. I think Nolan's movies have better, more coherent plots than Burton's. However, to me, Batman isn't just about plot. It's also about mood. Batman doesn't belong in the real world. He belongs in a gothic Tim Burton nightmare. And while Nolan provides a plausible explanation for why Batman does what he does, I think that Burton's interpretation is far more likely. To do what he does in the way that he does it, Batman must be crazy. And while Nolan may not know it, some of his characters seem to. Rachel Dawes seemed to have Bruce's psychosis figured out pretty early on. And Bruce himself said, "Guy who dresses up like a bat clearly has issues."
Thank you. I've been waiting for someone else to notice that. I thought what made Batman Begins so special was that it was the first movie to really be about Bruce Wayne in a very overt way. The Dark Knight seemed to pull back from that, almost as if Nolan was embarrassed at having to include Batman in the story at all. It was like he just wanted to make a straight crime drama about Jim Gordon & Harvey Dent fighting the Joker.
I think that there are a lot of levels to the writing of Batman Returns that don't register until you're older. Black humor is definately my thing. I hope that we get to see this kind of sophisticated dialogue in a future Batman movie.
I also hated his version of The Penquin. The Penguin is supposed to be a short, fat, abbrasive, dapper, mob kingpin. Not a mutant that lives in the sewer.
But how interesting or different is a mobster who's just rude and has particular looks? To do a superhero movie where a main villain is just a normal guy seems underwhelming when there are a lot of good unusual villains (and BR's Penguin adapted some of the ideas of the Two-Face character, so it was kind of two-for-one).
It could be very interesting. Hell the Joker can be described as a "mobster who's just rude with peculiar looks."
Turning The Penguin into a deformed mutant who lives in the sewer is just dumb.
I don't completely blame Schumacher. However I'm pretty sure the nipples on the batsuit thing was his idea. What idiots allowed that to stay in the movie?
Batman has always used tons of vehicles in the comics. Why is that one guy in this topic just now starting to complain about them being used the movie? This is the first time I've heard about anyone complain about that.
I noticed that the poster conveniently fogot to mention the increasing amount of vechiles in Nolan's movies.
Tumbler
Tumbler
Batpod
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Yeah, but you know all new Batmobile, all new Batwing, etc...was more about selling merchandise, as probably was their destructions. I like the original Batwing...but since it was trashed...gotta have a new one. I mean, they destroyed the Batmobile in 3 out of 6 Batman movies (ignoring the 60's movie).
My original point was that in the end of every Burton/Schumacher Batman movies it would always end with Batman and friends converging on the villains lair/final location in some brand new vehicle.
Like MeanJoePhaser said they were there more for the toy sales.
^And then Robin changed back when they went back to Wayne Manor to give Alfred the cure.
The film's biggest problem is that it was essentially filmed on one sound stage with one group of extras the entire time. It makes it feel cheap and claustrophobic. I love the movie, but this is why shooting in real locations is necessary, even for Gotham City. Seriously, the town square and Shreck's are used for pretty much every scene.
That whole movie was a mess.
Let's not try to bash Batman & Robin too much in this topic. Once it starts it's hard to stop. What's important is that we all know B&R sucked.
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