Batman Returns

[Mr. Adventure]

I really do not like how they envisioned the Penguin in this movie. He is supposed to be a dandy in a tux not a freak with flippers instead of hands. I loved Burton's first Batman movie but could never warm up to his second one.

To be fair though Heath Ledger didn't look anything like the dapper Joker I grew up with.

 

[JacksonArcher]

Look at some of the earlier Joker comics like "Five-Way Revenge". That's where Nolan got his inspiration for The Joker.

I always thought Burton and Nolan's interpretations of the villains were reversed: Burton usually got the look of the villains comic-book accurate (Penguin is not that far from his comic-book look in Batman Returns) but they rarely seemed like the villains of the comics spirtually, where in Nolan's films the villains are pretty spot-on spirtually and personality-wise but aesthetically a bit different, and not as comic-book accurate.

As for Batman Returns the film, I must concur with the assessment that it was too much Tim Burton, who himself even admitted he has never read a comic-book before in his life. But that's okay. His films are moody, stylish, and visually impressive but sometimes thin on plot & characterization. Batman Returns is a prime example of this.

Pretty to look at, but not much there underneath.

 

[1001001]

I loved Batman Returns. So grim and dismal.

Whatever you think of Burton's take on the Caped Crusader, his movies were goddamned masterpieces compared to what that hack Schumacher coughed up.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Pretty to look at, but not much there underneath.

There's a lot underneath in terms of theme and character, although his plots - especially in his early films - are often disjointed.

 

[Galactus]

Batman Forever is better than Returns even with a very bad Two-Face. Returns is just too strange. But at least Burton did a better Batman movie than Singer did a Superman movie. Even if he didn't get the character he still got most of it.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I loved Batman Returns. So grim and dismal.

Whatever you think of Burton's take on the Caped Crusader, his movies were goddamned masterpieces compared to what that hack Schumacher coughed up.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Schumacher as a hack. Sure, B&R is possibly the worst movie of all time. But Phone Booth, Tigerland, Falling Down and Veronica Guerin are all damn fine movies. Schumacher can be a very good director with the right script.

 

[1001001]

I loved Batman Returns. So grim and dismal.

Whatever you think of Burton's take on the Caped Crusader, his movies were goddamned masterpieces compared to what that hack Schumacher coughed up.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Schumacher as a hack. Sure, B&R is possibly the worst movie of all time. But Phone Booth, Tigerland, Falling Down and Veronica Guerin are all damn fine movies. Schumacher can be a very good director with the right script.

Yeah, I was specifically referring to his Batman films. I don't know much else of his.

But he was totally off base with Batman. I remember reading an interview with him, and he actually said "I want to get away from the 'boo-hoo my parents are dead' Batman."

And I thought to myself: "You dumbshit! That IS Batman! Otherwise, it's just some weirdo rich guy in a halloween costume."

Schumacher should be kept 100 yards from the Batman franchise at all times.

Nolan has done a great job, IMHO. His two have both been fabulous.

 

[The Badger]

Michelle Pfeiffer was perfectly cast for the role and Catwoman's costume was just as striking as Batman's costume. Pfeiffer made Catwoman's lines seem badass instead of cheesy.

Michelle Pfeiffer in that outfit affected me deeply. She's the main reason (not the only reason, but the main one) why the Mary Sue in my fan fic wears a catsuit.

I agree with what a lot of the other posters have said. BR is a brilliant movie, just not a very good Batman movie.

 

[Broccoli]

I think the humor in the first two movies were great. The next two movies were just dumb especially Mr Freeze's lame ice puns.

"Let's kick some icccccce!"

But he was totally off base with Batman.

The strange thing is he is supposedly a big Batman fan. Go figure. At least he owned up and basically apologized for the film. If you ever get a chance, watch the commentary for B&R...it is pretty good.

 

[Aragorn]

I loved Batman Returns. So grim and dismal.

Whatever you think of Burton's take on the Caped Crusader, his movies were goddamned masterpieces compared to what that hack Schumacher coughed up.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Schumacher as a hack. Sure, B&R is possibly the worst movie of all time. But Phone Booth, Tigerland, Falling Down and Veronica Guerin are all damn fine movies. Schumacher can be a very good director with the right script.

The funny thing is, Schumacher is a director who could've gone even darker with Batman than Burton. Probably with Kiefer Sutherland going around screaming, "I'm the goddamn Batman" while beating the crap out of people.

 

[Broccoli]

I loved Batman Returns. So grim and dismal.

Whatever you think of Burton's take on the Caped Crusader, his movies were goddamned masterpieces compared to what that hack Schumacher coughed up.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss Schumacher as a hack. Sure, B&R is possibly the worst movie of all time. But Phone Booth, Tigerland, Falling Down and Veronica Guerin are all damn fine movies. Schumacher can be a very good director with the right script.

The funny thing is, Schumacher is a director who could've gone even darker with Batman than Burton. Probably with Kiefer Sutherland going around screaming, "I'm the goddamn Batman" while beating the crap out of people.

My thinking is that Batman Returns scared the studio heads so much with the public backlash, that no matter who was direction the following films, it would still get pushed into that campy nature. I am not saying that excuses what Joel Schumacher did. I'm just throwing that out there.

 

[Aragorn]

Schmacher wanted to make a darker, smaller budget Batman for the fifth installment. But at the same time he does take responsibility for Batman Forever and Batman & Robin even though the lighter Batman was the studio's mandate, he knew exactly what he was getting into.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I actually think much of Forever is pretty good and he at least got Batman to move and fight like, er Batman. I remember Schumacher - who seems like a nice guy, it must be said - saying that while he loved Burton's look for the first two, he wanted to do his own look for these movies, hence the day glo, garish colours etc.

The problem with B&R was much like that suffered by Star Trek V:TFF. The studio saw that a light-hearted movie - ST:IV: TVH / Forever was a big success and insisted on going even more light-hearted with the next one. And, of course, they went far too far in that direction. Much of my hatred from that movie is aimed at Akiva Goldsman's godawful script, rather than Schumacher's direction.

And as you say, Schumacher has the decency to stand up and take responsibility for B&R, even though it would have been easy - and probably correct - to blame the studio.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

While I can't disagree with many complaints people have about the movie (the plot is disjointed, Batman is overshadowed by the villains, etc.) I still love, cherish, and adore it with all my heart. When I first caught this film in the theater in 1992, I wanted it to keep on going and not end. I was so disappointed that a Burton-directed Catwoman movie starring Pfeiffer never came to pass.

 

[Frontier]

Before I understood a damn thing about Batman, before I knew any better, and before there was anything better of live-action Batman, I loved Batman Returns.

Then Batman Begins came out. And the Dark Knight.

And now, Returns is relegated to the utter dreck festival it and the other 3 films from its series are.

They got only a handful of things right, and oh so many things wrong.

Begins and TDK, mind you, aren't perfect - but they're the cats pajamas for live action.

Batman: TAS = the Awesome

 

[Dream]

While BB and TDK might be closer to the source material I actually find Burton's two Batman movies to be more rewatchable. For me the Batman movies work better as dark fairy tales more than gritty crime dramas.

I hate how they explained everything away in the new Nolan movies. They took away much of Batman's mystery by explaining everything about his suit, weapons, and Batmobile. Instead of a freak dressed as a giant bat in the Burton movies the Batman in the Nolan movies seem like just a guy in a suit. Bale's Bruce Wayne doesn't seem crazy enough.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Burton and Nolan's takes on Batman are both very enjoyable. One of the great strengths of the character is that he can be interpreted and presented in so many different ways that are valid and true to the spirit of various periods of the comic books. Even Schumacher's take on Batman is rooted in the comics. It's just a take - at least in the uber-campy Batman and Robin - that most fans didn't want to see.

 

[nx1701g]

Though they still made the action figure...

... yes I have one.

Seriously? I never knew that they made one - never even thought there was a design for the character.

Any chance you could upload a photo to this thread? I'd be curious to see what the Robin costume for an African-American Robin in a Burton movie looks like.

The Robin action figure was pretty much the comic version at the time. It had the Tim Drake costume, was white, and wasn't modeled on any actor.

EDIT: Here we go.

*Off to search the collectibles room*

I could've sworn I had one that had dark skin.

 

[Praetor]

I still prefer the first Batman, but I do really like Returns too. More than anything, there's just a ton of cool, witty dialogue in it.

I think my main problem with Returns is that there's just too much going on. The storytelling isn't nearly as sharp and focused as in the first movie, and the Catwoman, Penguin, and Shrek stories seem to keep tripping over each other.

And as much as DeVito's Penguin has grown on me over the years, he just CAN'T compete with Pfeiffer's Catwoman. There's a real spark and magic to her scenes, and you can really feel the movie lose some of that energy everytime it drifts back to the Penguin story (not to mention the fact they made the Penguin perhaps a little TOO disgusting and unpleasant).

I have to agree with this.

And regarding the cats reviving Selina, I always thought it was a play on the old wives' tale that cats steal babies' breath as they sleep - only this time they were giving it to her to bring her back to life.

But one thing I do love is just how dark and twisted this Batman is (I especially love those evil little grins Keaton would give). I know it drives the fanboys nuts, but this to me is the ideal version of the character. Psychologically it just makes a lot more sense, and feels to me like what a real Batman would probably be like-- because if you're going to dress up like a bat, you're going to be a bit nuts. That was Burton's belief, and I completely agree with him.

Here, I have to disagree a bit. I think Bats should definitely be a bit nuts and not quite spot-on heroic, but the Burton/Keaton combo just never worked for me. And, I don't believe in the Milleresque Batman. At least, not "in his prime" Batman. For DKR, sure. But not for Batman earlier in his career.

But they did make Penguin Commandos!

And those damn missiles hurt like a mofo.

Yeah I remember liking Batman Forever when it came out (probably because Jim Carey was so big at the time), but I tried watching it again recently and it's just embarassingly bad.

The only good part is that action scene between Batman and Two-Face's goons early on, which has the coolest fight choreography of any of the six Batman movies, IMO.

I disagree. I think it's aged surprisingly well. There are definitely cringeworthy moments, but I've never reacted as negatively to it as others have.

^ I actually think much of Forever is pretty good and he at least got Batman to move and fight like, er Batman. I remember Schumacher - who seems like a nice guy, it must be said - saying that while he loved Burton's look for the first two, he wanted to do his own look for these movies, hence the day glo, garish colours etc.

The problem with B&R was much like that suffered by Star Trek V:TFF. The studio saw that a light-hearted movie - ST:IV: TVH / Forever was a big success and insisted on going even more light-hearted with the next one. And, of course, they went far too far in that direction. Much of my hatred from that movie is aimed at Akiva Goldsman's godawful script, rather than Schumacher's direction.

And as you say, Schumacher has the decency to stand up and take responsibility for B&R, even though it would have been easy - and probably correct - to blame the studio.

I think this is a pretty spot-on assessment. I happen to think the neon look is an alternate, and equally valid, take, comparable to the gothic look of the Burton films. The "urban glam" if you will could be rather frightening. It's all in the execution, really.

I still think Bat-nipples were a bit much, though.

 

[Tulaberry whine]

I'm not a huge Batman fan, but Batman Returns is still my favourite Batman movie by a mile and I actually think it's improved with age - or perhaps I can enjoy it more now as an adult than a child.

A smart and rather funny (if black humour is your thing) superhero film; we need more of them.