Bad plot devices in Star Trek movies

[Nerys Myk]

Right, just those skin-tight catsuits that really let an actress know why she is in the show.

And where do you see me praising or even mentioning 7 of 9 or T'Pol?

How about praising Kira and Troi?

 

[thumbtack]

Right, just those skin-tight catsuits that really let an actress know why she is in the show.

And where do you see me praising or even mentioning 7 of 9 or T'Pol?

How about praising Kira and Troi?

Actually, Troi's catsuit was my favorite. It was slighty more dignified, anyway. But Mirror-Kira's pleather catsuit was certainly the most fun!



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[SilentP]

This kind of bothered me. No matter the kinetic energy of the explosion, it should not have been able to push the Enterprise past the escape velocity of a black hole. Of course, maybe they weren't beyond the Schwarzchild/Kerr/whatever radius after all, as they don't actually say. But even if it was just being drawn toward the event horizon, though, a working exception to the rules of gravity strikes me as muchmore useful in that sort of circumstance than using an extremely inefficient antimatter rocket.

Bugged me worse in Insurrection, though. At least it's common sensical that a explosion pushes. But why should a bunch of gamma rays and neutrinos close a hole in spacetime?

How about the warp core explosion, while being all fancy and what not, wasn't saving the Enterprise by pushing it out, but by destabilising the singularity? A matter/anti-matter explosion of that scale could easily knock about an anomaly that unpredictable into collapsing, hence why the Enterprise was released.

Admittedly, this doesn't seem to be intention the crew set out to do by ejecting the core, and since we don't know much about the particulars of the singularity, it might not be.

However, do remember that the Enterprise wasn't actually shoved by the shockwave seemingly sufficiently to escape, and instead seemed to be enveloped in the explosion for a few moments before shooting out, seemingly in unconnected motion from the explosion (as in, didn't seem to be moving at the sort of speed that the shockwave would have given it).

 

[Jeyl]

In Where No Man Has Gone Before, Spock recommended that Kirk killed Gary Mitchell before he became too powerful. Maybe he was more logical there since he was older and hadn´t lost his mother, but he still sometimes recommend a violent solution to problems.

Totally different circumstances. Gary Mitchell was NOT being sucked into a Black Hole saying he would rather die than be helped. I honestly doubt Spock would recommend Kirk fire everything he had at him when he knew he wouldn't survive.

 

[JarodRussell]

Hey great, may I use this post in a discussion over at the ST XI forum?

Sure!

Thanks. I posted in in this thread when someone said the new movie was true to the spirit of TOS (the thread, unfortunately, got out of control).

This kind of bothered me. No matter the kinetic energy of the explosion, it should not have been able to push the Enterprise past the escape velocity of a black hole. Of course, maybe they weren't beyond the Schwarzchild/Kerr/whatever radius after all, as they don't actually say. But even if it was just being drawn toward the event horizon, though, a working exception to the rules of gravity strikes me as muchmore useful in that sort of circumstance than using an extremely inefficient antimatter rocket.

Bugged me worse in Insurrection, though. At least it's common sensical that a explosion pushes. But why should a bunch of gamma rays and neutrinos close a hole in spacetime?

How about the warp core explosion, while being all fancy and what not, wasn't saving the Enterprise by pushing it out, but by destabilising the singularity? A matter/anti-matter explosion of that scale could easily knock about an anomaly that unpredictable into collapsing, hence why the Enterprise was released.

Admittedly, this doesn't seem to be intention the crew set out to do by ejecting the core, and since we don't know much about the particulars of the singularity, it might not be.

However, do remember that the Enterprise wasn't actually shoved by the shockwave seemingly sufficiently to escape, and instead seemed to be enveloped in the explosion for a few moments before shooting out, seemingly in unconnected motion from the explosion (as in, didn't seem to be moving at the sort of speed that the shockwave would have given it).

What I find lame about that in the new movie is not the science (it's fiction after all), but the fact that they simply borrowed it from Insurrection. First, they endangered themselves by wasting time firing at the Narada (pointless and out of character), and to solve the problem, the writers borrowed from a previous Trek movie.

 

[NiteTrek]

I always hated when the "auto-destruct" went conveniently offline, just when they needed it. Or any device for that matter, when they need it, it's offline. Then you have just the opposite..."Shut down the engines!" We can't, circuits are fused."

The Nexus was a really stupid plot point. Really didn't make sense. Since Soran was able to calculate the path of the nexus and destroy suns to alter that path, just so he could enter the nexus again, why didn't he get a shuttlecraft and park it in space in the path of the nexus?

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I always hated when the "auto-destruct" went conveniently offline, just when they needed it. Or any device for that matter, when they need it, it's offline. Then you have just the opposite..."Shut down the engines!" We can't, circuits are fused."

The Nexus was a really stupid plot point. Really didn't make sense. Since Soran was able to calculate the path of the nexus and destroy suns to alter that path, just so he could enter the nexus again, why didn't he get a shuttlecraft and park it in space in the path of the nexus?

Not too mention:

Kirk is in the nexus. Some bald man comes walking up to him asking/begging/pushing him to risk his life and save the universe.

No questions asked.

Granted, the horse jump might have given things away, but BEING IN THE NEXUS where everything is possible....Picard should have been given a big Q and A.

Of course, it would have been convienient to 'materialize' during the ENT-B rescue of the El-Aurian refugees, or beam over Soran while he is on the Bird of Prey...

I digress, of course...as many of these points have already been brought up.

 

[Cyke101]

^Agreed about the Nexus. Just by definition of the Nexus' existence, there would be a ton of plot holes that would have to be addressed. In a sense, the Nexus was almost too powerful to logically use (instant time travel, for one thing).

 

[Wes-Cutting]

Why...... what was the point?.........It's like if a man was sinking in quick sand and you offered to help him. He says no but instead of just walking away, you pull out your gun and shoot him! And the time it you to completely unload on him, you find yourself sinking in quicksand. WHAT WAS THE POINT!? It's neither heroic or brave, it's just kicking someone while they're down and are about to meet their end anyways.

That is not true. Narada would have gone thru the black hole and ended up somewhere else. They had to destroy it or it would start all over in another time period.

Yeah, it should've been more clearly explained, but I'm okay with pursuing the Narada past the point of no relativistic return,since they had seen it pop into and out of a black hole once already, without a scratch.

Yeah but wasn't the black hole opening like right in the middle of the ship.

 

[The Castellan]

I agree with this, not necessarily the down-to-Earth part though.

Engineering and the Shuttlebay Areas being shot on location in a real Brewery. Vulcan having a clear blue sky instead of an orangy/red sky. Hypo sprays that hurt instead of ones where you don't feel a thing. Shields that act as armor instead of actual energy fields. Rap...wait...RAPPELLING IN A STARSHIP?! Cell Phone companies still in use. Budweiser still making Beer. Money still existing in the 23rd Century. Having the Enterprise be completely built on Earth. Big plastic freezer drapes that separate sections of a shuttle craft.

Still not enough?

In other words, it was a little more realistic and not the hippie Utopian dream of the 60's. DS9 was the same way -- what Star Trek *should have been* from the start.

Why must it be 'realistic'? I given a choice between "Relaistic" and "Hippie Utopian" worlds I'd choose the latter myself. Plus I prefer hypos that don't hurt.

My bad plot device.....expldoding control panels.

 

[trevanian]

In other words, it was a little more realistic and not the hippie Utopian dream of the 60's. DS9 was the same way -- what Star Trek *should have been* from the start.

DS9 had women in command, big huge set pieces, no rappelling, energy shields, a believable Captain and a true love for what Trek is all about. It took the real risks Star Trek needed. Not risks that involve blowing up planets, but ones that questioned what the whole message of Star Trek was about.

Nice how folks from another era who have no respect for a previous one dismiss aspects of it as a 'hippie utopian dream.'

GR's deluded utopia was on view in TNG ... not TOS.

Coon wouldn't have been able to write his gems for TNG, because the truth and the warmth of his flawed/interesting Starfleet characters wouldn't have jived with all the 24th century TNG dictates ...

Yeah, DS9 is the only Trek show that for me really carries on the TOS feel while building on the power of the occasional 'downer'ending that the first series had. And another real miracle is that DS9 not only did this, but did it alongside TNG, without wholly contradicting it (though I kinda wish it had.)

Has anybody mentioned 'e-d breaks down' as most overused bad plot device? The writers actually had to brag about not using it at all 6th season in a CFQ article.

 

[Bones2]

Has anybody mentioned 'e-d breaks down' as most overused bad plot device? The writers actually had to brag about not using it at all 6th season in a CFQ article.

 

[thumbtack]

Just by definition of the Nexus' existence, there would be a ton of plot holes

Yep. The whole idea of the Nexus was far more idiotic and ridiculous than anything in the Abrams film.

 

[JarodRussell]

Why...... what was the point?.........It's like if a man was sinking in quick sand and you offered to help him. He says no but instead of just walking away, you pull out your gun and shoot him! And the time it you to completely unload on him, you find yourself sinking in quicksand. WHAT WAS THE POINT!? It's neither heroic or brave, it's just kicking someone while they're down and are about to meet their end anyways.

That is not true. Narada would have gone thru the black hole and ended up somewhere else. They had to destroy it or it would start all over in another time period.

And why exactly would they care? The Narada vanishes, and nobody would notice anything because she would be - according to the new rules set by the new writers - in yet another alternate universe.

 

[Cyke101]

Why...... what was the point?.........It's like if a man was sinking in quick sand and you offered to help him. He says no but instead of just walking away, you pull out your gun and shoot him! And the time it you to completely unload on him, you find yourself sinking in quicksand. WHAT WAS THE POINT!? It's neither heroic or brave, it's just kicking someone while they're down and are about to meet their end anyways.

That is not true. Narada would have gone thru the black hole and ended up somewhere else. They had to destroy it or it would start all over in another time period.

And why exactly would they care? The Narada vanishes, and nobody would notice anything because she would be - according to the new rules set by the new writers - in yet another alternate universe.

Because if the Prime Directive has taught us anything, if you add a new factor to a new environment unsupervised, it can be disastrous for the environment, regardless of its personal impact to you. It's roughly like the events of Dauntless from Voyager.

Think of it as them saving another time line in the process. Really, if Spock had stopped Nero in the Prime Universe, Kelvin and Vulcan would be okay in the new Universe, nothing would have been altered, and I think that's something that's understood (if not outright spoken) by the new Big Seven.

 

[number6]

That is not true. Narada would have gone thru the black hole and ended up somewhere else. They had to destroy it or it would start all over in another time period.

And why exactly would they care? The Narada vanishes, and nobody would notice anything because she would be - according to the new rules set by the new writers - in yet another alternate universe.

Because if the Prime Directive has taught us anything, if you add a new factor to a new environment unsupervised, it can be disastrous for the environment, regardless of its personal impact to you. It's roughly like the events of Dauntless from Voyager.

Think of it as them saving another time line in the process. Really, if Spock had stopped Nero in the Prime Universe, Vulcan would be okay in the new Universe, and I think that's something that's understood (if not outright spoken) by the new Big Seven.

This makes perfect sense.