Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
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1) The Vorlons and Shadows being "higher beings" tracks directly to/with LotR's Ainur, with the Vorlons - Kosh and Ulkesh in particular - also directly mirroring the Ishtari (Wizards)
2) Sheridan falling to Z'ha'dum is directly mirrored in Gandalf falling at Khazad Dum, and his return there in Sleeping in Light tracks directly to/with Frodo's departure into the Undying Lands
3) Much of Sheridan's storyline with Delenn is directly mirrored in the Tales of Beren and Luthien and Aragorn and Arwen
4) Numerous aspects of Tolkien's Elves are directly mirrored in both the Minbari and the Technomages
5) Londo Mollari's corruption by Morden and the Shadows directly mirrors Isildur's corruption by the One Ring, as well as the wider corruption of the Nine Kings of Men by the One Ring and Sauron
6) Morden's role directly mirrors that of Isildur, the Nine, and Sauron himself
2) Sheridan falling to Z'ha'dum is directly mirrored in Gandalf falling at Khazad Dum, and his return there in Sleeping in Light tracks directly to/with Frodo's departure into the Undying Lands
3) Much of Sheridan's storyline with Delenn is directly mirrored in the Tales of Beren and Luthien and Aragorn and Arwen
4) Numerous aspects of Tolkien's Elves are directly mirrored in both the Minbari and the Technomages
5) Londo Mollari's corruption by Morden and the Shadows directly mirrors Isildur's corruption by the One Ring, as well as the wider corruption of the Nine Kings of Men by the One Ring and Sauron
6) Morden's role directly mirrors that of Isildur, the Nine, and Sauron himself
^None of that qualifies as "strong evidence", just a bunch of superficial similarities, most of which could just as easily apply to any number of sources and some of which have been explicitly denied by JMS.
Aside from being old and powerful, The Vorlons and the Shadows have nothing in common with the Ainur. Besides, JMS specifically cited Lensman's Arisians and some elements of the Cthulhu mythos as the main source of inspiration.
A hero falling into a pit is hardly unique to LotR, nor is a great leader mysteriously sailing off into the unknown or leaving behind the life they built as a metaphor for dying. From Gilgamesh to Arthur and even Jesus. It's very common in such tales. This is just a case of both JMS & Tolkien (who was a student of such things) drawing on the same material.
Again, the story of Sheridan & Delenn is a common pattern with only a vague, passing resemblance to Beren and Luthien. Hell, even Shakespeare filched that one.
Minbari are not elves. They're not immortal or possessed of an innate connection with a creator, nor are they departing the galaxy because the world ain't as sparkly as it used to be. They're as flawed as any other species and just so happened to have a millennia's technological lead. They also can't walk on snow, nor do they have preternatural vision or the inclination to have conversations with trees.
I have no idea where you get Isildur from Mr. Morden or Londo, much less the others. Unless you're talking in the broadest "person who was corrupted by ambition and self-interest" sense. In which case that's ludicrous. That archetype is at the centre of almost every morality fable ever told.
Aside from being old and powerful, The Vorlons and the Shadows have nothing in common with the Ainur. Besides, JMS specifically cited Lensman's Arisians and some elements of the Cthulhu mythos as the main source of inspiration.
A hero falling into a pit is hardly unique to LotR, nor is a great leader mysteriously sailing off into the unknown or leaving behind the life they built as a metaphor for dying. From Gilgamesh to Arthur and even Jesus. It's very common in such tales. This is just a case of both JMS & Tolkien (who was a student of such things) drawing on the same material.
Again, the story of Sheridan & Delenn is a common pattern with only a vague, passing resemblance to Beren and Luthien. Hell, even Shakespeare filched that one.
Minbari are not elves. They're not immortal or possessed of an innate connection with a creator, nor are they departing the galaxy because the world ain't as sparkly as it used to be. They're as flawed as any other species and just so happened to have a millennia's technological lead. They also can't walk on snow, nor do they have preternatural vision or the inclination to have conversations with trees.
I have no idea where you get Isildur from Mr. Morden or Londo, much less the others. Unless you're talking in the broadest "person who was corrupted by ambition and self-interest" sense. In which case that's ludicrous. That archetype is at the centre of almost every morality fable ever told.
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If you can, try to stick with it. The first season should be viewed as a "prologue" that sets up the events of the stellar seasons 2-4. The season gets much better by the end BTW. Season 5 serves as sort of an extended Epilogue to the previous seasons. There are a few spinoff movies of varying quality and a cancelled 13-episode spinoff series. It may not have the best special fx but what it lacks in visual effects it more than makes up for in terms of character development. If you are a fan of DS9 (which didn't have a particularly good first season either), you will probably end up enjoying it (and probably even see some interesting parallels). There are also some intentional allusions to Lord of the Rings as noted
The Cold War imo is probably a stronger influence especially in the original proposal where the Shadows want to overthrow the Vorlons and their domination to place themselves on top (a cynical reading of the non-aligned and post-colonial movements). But also in what in the show with the Shadows and Vorlons trading technology and military support as well as assassinations to prop up leaders favorable to them.
I wouldn't characterise the Shadows as wanting to "overthrow" the Vorlons exactly. The endless cycle of wars was basically the pair of them arguing over the merits of their ideologies. They each want to prove that their way is the right and they each want the other to admit it. They're not looking to hurt each other, indeed I'm pretty sure they care very much for one another. In a sense, they're siblings. They'll yell and spit and knock each others toys over, even draw blood, but at the end of the day they're still family.
I wouldn't even say the Vorlons are "dominant" in any real sense. For the most part the other First Ones simply don't want to get involved in this little squabble. Maybe once they did take sides, but now they're just sick of the whole thing.
Reread my post:
This is absolutely a fair reading based on what is known about the original plan from Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" and the Vorlons' actions from season 1 that adhered more to the original plan for B5.
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The Vorlons and Shadows take their inspiration from the Arisians and Eddorians of "The Lensmen" series. Two hyper advanced races who use lesser races as pawns in their ancient war. Even seeding worlds and guiding the evolution of some races.
You're reaching farther than Plastic Man on all of these. Most are similar only in the broadest sense. It's like saying that anything with a spaceship in it is mirroring Buck Rogers. Also, LotR borrowed from older myth cycles heavily. That whole "ring corrupting people" thing? Not original. It's lifted from stories of Siegfried and the Rhinegold. The tale of Turim Turambar is a riff on the tale of Kullervo, which Tolkien wrote an interpretation of in 1914.
I am planning on buying the entire series. In the past, I have only watched a few shows here and there but I liked what I saw. I am looking forward to it.
Heck, Tolkien's creation tale with Iluvatar and the song of creation is very heavily influenced by the Kalevala and its use of songs as spells in the creation of the world. The Valar are not any kind of evolved alien species in Tolkien. They are the agents of god, the creator of everything.
Oooh, I envy you the first two times you watch! Two times because you'll see so much that was set up ahead of time. But the nice thing is that no matter how many times you watch it, there's something new you'll notice or that you'd forgotten. Have fun!
Me neither. Looks like it's fairly new (and kind of struggling).
go90 is apparently a free service, being ad-supported. Unfortunately, the name makes it sound a bit like Joe 90 and implicitly over twenty years out of date. Maybe it's aimed at 90-year olds with mobiles -- there's a Venn diagram with little overlap.
Here is their link for anyone interested:
https://www.go90.com/shows/babylon5
https://www.go90.com/shows/babylon5
Yeah, it's US only -- licensing rights, I expect. Didn't try using a VPN service to access. Seems like it might have a limited life expectancy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go90
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