You are the beginning of the story, and the middle of the story, and the end of the story that creates the next great story. In your heart, you know what Zathras says is true.
Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
- Start date
Oh, yes. Best finale of a series ever.
So what did you think of Za'Ha'Dum. What is your favorite finale up to this point?
On my rewatch, I loved the season 1 finale, Crysalis, a lot. Everything was happening and I sat there thinking what else could go wrong. I love ZaHaDum as well but I think I like season 1s a tad more. Still, Sharidan jumping as the Nuke goes off and Garabaldi's disappearance were holy crap moments.
As for the season 2 finale, that feels so ho hum in comparison.
On my rewatch, I loved the season 1 finale, Crysalis, a lot. Everything was happening and I sat there thinking what else could go wrong. I love ZaHaDum as well but I think I like season 1s a tad more. Still, Sharidan jumping as the Nuke goes off and Garabaldi's disappearance were holy crap moments.
As for the season 2 finale, that feels so ho hum in comparison.
It was very good, and it certainly peaked my interest for season 4 to find out what happens.
Cool. I would suggest if you haven't yet after B5 watch Farscape. I only mention it because with series like TNG, DS9, Babylon 5 and Farscape that was like the space series golden era, much like what the comic books are experiencing now. I mean from 1987 to the end of BSG, it was really something if you were a space adventure kind of fan. Glad you're enjoying B5.
I'm going to be a little bit of a wet blanket here without giving away any details. The following will make sense as you watch through season four.
In reality the show was set to end at the end of Season 4 until TNT rescued it for Season 5. So, some of the story lines find their conclusion in Season 4 while Season 5 provides a closure for others and opens up new stories as well.
That said, I love that the series did justice to all of the various plot lines over the course of the five seasons and gave us a great sense of thematic closure as well as wrapping up specific character arcs. In the end, all of the great themes are given the proper amount of attention and all of the characters treated with respect.
In many ways, there are a lot of thematic and plot parallels to Lord of the Rings, which inspired the idea in the first place.
Well... given Londo's narration of the pilot along the lines of Bilbo's Red Book... Vir?
Zooty, of course.
There are no real character for character parallels, but the structure of the universe and the different alien races, as well as their interactions with each other, share broad similarities. B5 was JMS's MIddle Earth in space.
Does it have a memorable finale? It has the single best finale of any show I've ever watched. Most finale's and run ups to the finale usually feel "off" and they feel this way because most shows operate in a static bubble. When these shows are ending and the writers no longer have to worry about that status quo, they either start introducing changes to the characters lives or have some big change happen in the final episode....like a character moving or whatever and they never feel organic because there was so little actual change in the previous years. All of the Trek spin-off finale's felt that way to me.
Since the story in B5 was always changing and moving forward, the end felt very organic and like the logical conclusion to it all. It always pisses me off that Lost and nuBSG get accolades for the long form story on television, when Babylon 5 was first and still did it better than any other series. JMS always described B5 as a "novel for television" and it will feel as if you've completed one big story when done. Unlike the other shows.
As for the Middle Earth thing.....B5 draws influence from my name sake, The Lensman series as well. The Vorlons and Shadows are basically the Arisians and the Eddorians.
The final five minutes are the best moments in any series finale ... ever.
Remember that if you've been following the recommended order I posted on page 4, the episodes below should be the last few episodes. Notice in particular that "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" from season 4 is recommended to watch last. But for whether the actual series finale, "Sleeping in Light," was good, you might like to know that it was nominated for the 1999 Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation.
It's funny, this show really doesn't do anything traditionally. The very first kiss between Sheridan and Delenn was with the future Delenn in WWE and in Z'ha'dum he finally says it out loud that he might actually lover her, but it is in the middle of a angry fight.
Anyway, one of the best season finales ever. We get answers, we get more questions, hero sacrificing themselves even though he has been told many times that if you do this, you get *beeb*... I still remember the first time I watched this. Lurker's Guide says that it was in Saturday, February 1999 in Finland. My jaw was on the floor for at least half an hour afterwards because it was my first experience of a cliffhanger in any show. Shocking!
Anyway, one of the best season finales ever. We get answers, we get more questions, hero sacrificing themselves even though he has been told many times that if you do this, you get *beeb*... I still remember the first time I watched this. Lurker's Guide says that it was in Saturday, February 1999 in Finland. My jaw was on the floor for at least half an hour afterwards because it was my first experience of a cliffhanger in any show. Shocking!
Apologies for bringing up an old argument but *please* don't let anything come between "Objects in Motion", "Objects at Rest", and "Sleeping in Light". While JWPlatt may be correct about a strict chronology, for the true and intended emotional impact, don't let anything come between those three episodes. You can play around with the chronology on future viewings.
Random trivia: The new Vorlon ambassador is never named on the show (credited as "Kosh II" I believe) does actually have a name. It's "Ulkesh". That whole "we are all Kosh" thing was just him being all Vorlon about it.
As a matter of interest, he's actually spent most of the last few years on Minbar with Sinclair (you saw him briefly in "War Without End" though they hadn't quite nailed the design so he looks and sounds different.)
Finally, it's not directly addressed here, but there are clues for the eagle-eyed that the machine that Sinclair (and *much* later Delenn) used to become a Minbari/Human hybrid (including the triluminaries) was provided by none-other than Zathras and the Great Machine of Epsilon 3.
If you want to know more I strongly recommend you seek out 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows'. It's about as canon a novel as you can get and covers what Sinclair got up-to on Minbar, what happened to Catherine Sakai and how Marcus joined the Rangers. It also touches on Valen and *hints* at his ultimate fate.
Not exactly. Valen was more of a messianic figure who appeared seemingly out of nowhere when the Minbari were being pushed to the brink by the Shadows and on the verge of fracturing. He pretty much single handedly united them and lead the counter offensive that left them greatly diminished and crawling back into dormancy. He also founded the Anla'Shok, established the Grey Council to maintain balance between the castes and set in motion a thousand years of relative peace and harmony for the Minbari. All of this happened about a thousand years ago.
The leader who's death kicked off the Earth-Minbari war was a man named Dukhat. You'll find out more about him and the circumstances of his death (already glimpsed at in 'Grail') later on, but the general gist is that he was the leader of the Grey Council who was seen as one of the greatest in a good long while, possibly since Valen himself. Well thought of and highly respected among all three castes, he was Delenn's mentor and he died in her arms, which happened a little over ten years prior to season 1 (so in the mid 2240's.)
There is a connection though since the War started by Dukat's death stopped when the Minbari pulled in a "random" Earthforce pilot during the Battle of the Line (Sinclair) and scanned him with the triluminariy...and it glowed. Something it was only supposed to do for Valen, which naturally freaked them the hell out and (given their belief in reincarnation) led them to the conclusion that the people they were in the middle of wiping out had Minbari souls. Hence their sudden and outwardly inexplicable surrender on the eve of victory.
The Vorlons heard the same signal and simply got there first. One assumes Sinclar/Valen had words with them and they recognised the significance of his arrival. Also, in this time they were a lot less shy about walking openly.
I won't try and build up your expectations since that's usually a recipe for disappointment, but I will assure you that it's anything but an anti-climax and for every fan I've ever heard from, it's a *very* satisfactory conclusion. But you can judge for yourself when the time comes.
*Seconded*
There's all kinds of funny viewing order lists out there but really, on your first run though it's best to keep things simple and just watch thing in the order in which they were released.
The 'Crusade' spin-off series on the other hand is a whole can of worms unto itself and that does require a bit of viewing order assistance, but let's burn that bridge when we come to it.
As a matter of interest, he's actually spent most of the last few years on Minbar with Sinclair (you saw him briefly in "War Without End" though they hadn't quite nailed the design so he looks and sounds different.)
Finally, it's not directly addressed here, but there are clues for the eagle-eyed that the machine that Sinclair (and *much* later Delenn) used to become a Minbari/Human hybrid (including the triluminaries) was provided by none-other than Zathras and the Great Machine of Epsilon 3.
If you want to know more I strongly recommend you seek out 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows'. It's about as canon a novel as you can get and covers what Sinclair got up-to on Minbar, what happened to Catherine Sakai and how Marcus joined the Rangers. It also touches on Valen and *hints* at his ultimate fate.
Not exactly. Valen was more of a messianic figure who appeared seemingly out of nowhere when the Minbari were being pushed to the brink by the Shadows and on the verge of fracturing. He pretty much single handedly united them and lead the counter offensive that left them greatly diminished and crawling back into dormancy. He also founded the Anla'Shok, established the Grey Council to maintain balance between the castes and set in motion a thousand years of relative peace and harmony for the Minbari. All of this happened about a thousand years ago.
The leader who's death kicked off the Earth-Minbari war was a man named Dukhat. You'll find out more about him and the circumstances of his death (already glimpsed at in 'Grail') later on, but the general gist is that he was the leader of the Grey Council who was seen as one of the greatest in a good long while, possibly since Valen himself. Well thought of and highly respected among all three castes, he was Delenn's mentor and he died in her arms, which happened a little over ten years prior to season 1 (so in the mid 2240's.)
There is a connection though since the War started by Dukat's death stopped when the Minbari pulled in a "random" Earthforce pilot during the Battle of the Line (Sinclair) and scanned him with the triluminariy...and it glowed. Something it was only supposed to do for Valen, which naturally freaked them the hell out and (given their belief in reincarnation) led them to the conclusion that the people they were in the middle of wiping out had Minbari souls. Hence their sudden and outwardly inexplicable surrender on the eve of victory.
The magic of editing. The Minbari didn't find the station as soon as it arrived, they were called to it by a signal Valen sent out after he'd emerged.
The Vorlons heard the same signal and simply got there first. One assumes Sinclar/Valen had words with them and they recognised the significance of his arrival. Also, in this time they were a lot less shy about walking openly.
I won't try and build up your expectations since that's usually a recipe for disappointment, but I will assure you that it's anything but an anti-climax and for every fan I've ever heard from, it's a *very* satisfactory conclusion. But you can judge for yourself when the time comes.
*Seconded*
There's all kinds of funny viewing order lists out there but really, on your first run though it's best to keep things simple and just watch thing in the order in which they were released.
The 'Crusade' spin-off series on the other hand is a whole can of worms unto itself and that does require a bit of viewing order assistance, but let's burn that bridge when we come to it.
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