Wow, that does sound annoying.
Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
- Start date
I've been editing Wikipedia for way too long, and even ran for admin 1.5 times, so...I understand their concerns about sourcing. I don't want to...in fact I couldn't...weigh in on a specific situation without details, obviously, but I know a bunch of the editing I do tends to involve removing unsourced or poorly-sourced information, and a fair amount of the time I'll have the editor who added it argue that it's "obvious" or "well-known" or what-not. The part that's silly about such arguments is that it is so much easier to just add a source than to argue about whether one's needed, and while I try to assume good faith, when an editor trying to add material can't or won't provide a source? Yeah, I get skeptical.
It's trickier when an editor has a source they believe to be reliable that doesn't actually pass muster per Wikipedia's standards, but that's why there's options for discussion and consensus-building. I don't really believe the most stubborn editor wins, but I think a lot of people don't feel strongly enough about adding their material to go through the discussion that may be needed...which is fair, because yes, it can be tedious, but I don't know of better options.
It's trickier when an editor has a source they believe to be reliable that doesn't actually pass muster per Wikipedia's standards, but that's why there's options for discussion and consensus-building. I don't really believe the most stubborn editor wins, but I think a lot of people don't feel strongly enough about adding their material to go through the discussion that may be needed...which is fair, because yes, it can be tedious, but I don't know of better options.
In high population wikis that might be true (though the recent nonsense at Memory Alpha casts some doubt on even that) but on low population, niche wikis with just a handful of active or semi-active editors and an admin that is hardly--if ever--present (which let's be honest is most wikis) then it really does most often come down to battles of patience. And Daigon help you if that one admin IS active AND treats the place like their own little fiefdom.
"Community run" is a nice concept, but in practice these things can stagnate and turn toxic on a dime.
"The Long, Twilight Struggle"
The best episode of B5 thus far is a depressing but magnificent march through a cosmic graveyard.
What a showing for both Londo and G'Kar, who seem to have reached simultaneous peaks and nadirs in both literal power and moral resolve. From G'Kar hearing the Narn's ill-advised plan to assault Gorash VII (leaving the homeworld almost undefended in the process) to asking Sheridan for sanctuary, it was always clear how it was going to end.
Speaking of which, Londo's very brief reservations about the use of mass drivers and getting the Shadows involved in the battle felt like the last glimmer of decency before darkness envelops him - fittingly, what an excellent later shot of his reflection being submerged in shadow as he overlooks the battle.
The Shadows themselves continue to be as relentless and as fear-evoking as ever; what surprised me was that the Narn actually managed to do some damage to a Shadow vessel, for all the good it did.
The council scene was clearly one of the greatest sequences in the show up to this point, in an environment where the show's speechy tendencies were well-served. The trajectories of G'Kar and Londo have dramatically changed since the show's premiere (which seems so long ago). And there are still three seasons left. Whether or not Londo has embraced his villainous side, he certainly appears to be unwilling to hide from it any longer.
Though I enjoyed the actor, I spent most of the episode wondering why it was necessary for Draal to re-emerge now of all times. Of course, the answer is in the speech he gives which serves as the episode's namesake. This is a grim hour, to be sure. Ruled by shadow (literal and figurative), yes. But as Draal notes, even in this twilight struggle, there is the possibility of hope. There will always be, as Sheridan puts it, a fortress of light to make a stand against the darkness.
And the Narn-Centauri conflict feels like a mere footnote compared to that coming war.
Rating: *****
-As Londo instructs Garibaldi to gather the ambassadors to hear his announcement, we understand that any friendship the two had is gone forever. (or is it? As a newbie, I of course don't know)
-Mass drivers - akin to nuclear weapons?
-Did I hear Draal mention Zathras?
-"No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned that lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free."
-Kosh, frustratingly quiet. It's time for the Vorlons to get more involved.
The best episode of B5 thus far is a depressing but magnificent march through a cosmic graveyard.
What a showing for both Londo and G'Kar, who seem to have reached simultaneous peaks and nadirs in both literal power and moral resolve. From G'Kar hearing the Narn's ill-advised plan to assault Gorash VII (leaving the homeworld almost undefended in the process) to asking Sheridan for sanctuary, it was always clear how it was going to end.
Speaking of which, Londo's very brief reservations about the use of mass drivers and getting the Shadows involved in the battle felt like the last glimmer of decency before darkness envelops him - fittingly, what an excellent later shot of his reflection being submerged in shadow as he overlooks the battle.
The Shadows themselves continue to be as relentless and as fear-evoking as ever; what surprised me was that the Narn actually managed to do some damage to a Shadow vessel, for all the good it did.
The council scene was clearly one of the greatest sequences in the show up to this point, in an environment where the show's speechy tendencies were well-served. The trajectories of G'Kar and Londo have dramatically changed since the show's premiere (which seems so long ago). And there are still three seasons left. Whether or not Londo has embraced his villainous side, he certainly appears to be unwilling to hide from it any longer.
Though I enjoyed the actor, I spent most of the episode wondering why it was necessary for Draal to re-emerge now of all times. Of course, the answer is in the speech he gives which serves as the episode's namesake. This is a grim hour, to be sure. Ruled by shadow (literal and figurative), yes. But as Draal notes, even in this twilight struggle, there is the possibility of hope. There will always be, as Sheridan puts it, a fortress of light to make a stand against the darkness.
And the Narn-Centauri conflict feels like a mere footnote compared to that coming war.
Rating: *****
-As Londo instructs Garibaldi to gather the ambassadors to hear his announcement, we understand that any friendship the two had is gone forever. (or is it? As a newbie, I of course don't know)
-Mass drivers - akin to nuclear weapons?
-Did I hear Draal mention Zathras?
-"No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned that lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free."
-Kosh, frustratingly quiet. It's time for the Vorlons to get more involved.
My interpretation of Londo at that point in the series which I just passed in my viewing is that he wanted a kinder, gentler Centauri dictatorship but now he's in so deep he has to act the part to maintain his influence and act in what he sees as his homeworld's best interests.
Londo wants the legacy of his homeworld restored and to command the respect and power it used to, but he doesn't actually want to hurt anyone in the process. But he can't show his empathy except in microbursts of opportunity because his entire culture will read it as weakness.
Londo wants the legacy of his homeworld restored and to command the respect and power it used to, but he doesn't actually want to hurt anyone in the process. But he can't show his empathy except in microbursts of opportunity because his entire culture will read it as weakness.
Indeed, Londo seems to be a textbook case of “in too deep.”
If you look at his initial conversation with Mordin, it's like he said "I want the store next door that's stealing all my business to close!" And Mordin said "Got it", and murdered them all.
At this point I don't think it'll be a spoiler to say that for most fans, one of the most (if not THE most) fascinating aspect of this show is the parallel (or perpendicular?) character arcs of both Londo and G'Kar. I won't say any more since there's no need; you're clearly invested and will ride this out to the end and I wouldn't want to spoil a single second of that.
Anyway, basically what mass drivers are are giant rail guns that accelerate ("drive") asteroids ("mass") at very high velocity resulting in a proportionally large release of energy on impact that depending on amount of said mass and delta-V can make a mere nuke look like a fire cracker. E = mc2 and all that.
Supposedly the ones the Centauri were using have a little jump point generator to pull the asteroids in from where they've been towed in and pre-stationed in local hyperspace, for easier reloading, hence the blue swirly effect. Though I think that was just something cooked up be the VFX artists to get around the logistical problem of having a warship towing around a bunch of spare rocks, not anything in the officilal lore.
Kinda. At least in the sense that they're weapons of mass destruction and their use against inhabited worlds is outlawed by every civilized society. Also, actual thermonuclear warheads are still a thing used in warfare. For example, as has previously been mentioned Sheridan used one as a mine when he blew up the Black Star back during the Minbari War. You only occasionally see them used in ship-to-ship combat as IIRC the torpedoes are so slow compared to energy/plasma projectiles that they're too easy to intercept. Plus of course nukes are way less effective in a vacuum than in an atmosphere; no pressure wave means all it really does it kick out a bunch of radiation and well, space is already full of radiation, so unless it detonates VERY close to, or within the hull of a ship it won't do all that much. They're only really useful against static targets (ground bases, space stations, satellite platforms and the like) and are probably most often used in planetary defence grids than anything else.
Anyway, basically what mass drivers are are giant rail guns that accelerate ("drive") asteroids ("mass") at very high velocity resulting in a proportionally large release of energy on impact that depending on amount of said mass and delta-V can make a mere nuke look like a fire cracker. E = mc2 and all that.
Supposedly the ones the Centauri were using have a little jump point generator to pull the asteroids in from where they've been towed in and pre-stationed in local hyperspace, for easier reloading, hence the blue swirly effect. Though I think that was just something cooked up be the VFX artists to get around the logistical problem of having a warship towing around a bunch of spare rocks, not anything in the officilal lore.
No comment.
That he was present at all should speak volumes.
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What I love reading your ongoing reviews is how much effort JMS put into writing this show. B5 succeeded because of the need to have a tightly written, yet continually entertaining series. Because of the budget constraints, the entire seasons structure needed to be planned out before even shooting the first episode, which in turn gave room for story arcs and two parters (and even a few three parters!).
I don't remember much of the follow up shoes, Rangers or Legends or whatever but I recall it not being anything as well received as B5.
And now I've mentally picked up where you are in the show, even though I haven't watched it in several years. I'm not going to comment on your specific review, other than saying it gets better. The payoffs are absolutely worth it
I don't remember much of the follow up shoes, Rangers or Legends or whatever but I recall it not being anything as well received as B5.
And now I've mentally picked up where you are in the show, even though I haven't watched it in several years. I'm not going to comment on your specific review, other than saying it gets better. The payoffs are absolutely worth it
I think one thing that muddies Londo's character a bit here, and makes it harder to tell what he really thinks about things, is that in the end he is an ambassador, which means that he may not be being a dick because he wants to be a dick, but because he's been ordered to be a dick and doesn't have much choice other than to resign his post. Lord knows who the Centauri would find to fill it, but it might have been someone who would have been even harder to work with at this point.
"Yes, but you killed ten-thousand Narns!"
"I didn't know you cared."
There's a fairly limited number of times Londo really acted maliciously on his own initiative, without having his arm twisted into it by Refa or others within his government, or just having atrocities handed to him on a silver platter without asking by Morden. I have a little more to say about that, but it can wait until a particular episode comes up that touches on the subject.
Still, the thing that made Londo useful to Morden while G'Kar wasn't is that Londo didn't have a specific goal. He wanted the Centauri to go back to being King Shit of Turd Mountain, but that's a beast you can keep feeding forever. The Empire can always grow further. G'Kar, on the other hand, just wanted to be sure the Narn would never be hurt by the Centauri again, either in the physical sense, or in the moral sense that the continued existence of the Centauri was an unavoidable reminder of the Narn's subjugation and humiliation, but without the Centauri to hate, the Narn would lack purpose (or, at least, martial purpose).
G'Kar's concerns ended at the global, Londo's reached to the galactic. That's why G'Kar was of no use to Mordin. He was not expansionist, and he didn't have any other targets besides the Centauri.
I don't know if you noticed, but anytime someone lights candles and prays, bad stuff happens. G'kar lights 7 or 8 candles and prays while the battle at Gorash 7 is underway. When the battle is over only one candle is left burning on its own and is put out by G'kar.
Excellent review, and episode.
Only thing I'll add is I loved the music during the fight between the Narn and Shadow ships. One of the best of the series.
Only thing I'll add is I loved the music during the fight between the Narn and Shadow ships. One of the best of the series.
The soundtrack for this specific episode isn't available that I know of, but that music is included on the Volume 2 soundtrack that Sonic Images released way back when. No idea whether it's still in print.
The Music of B5 site, which remixed some of the suites to more closely resemble the music as it was in the episodes, has the battle sequence as an isolated track. https://musicofbabylon5.com/season-two/
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