Babylon 5

[David cgc]

Spoiler: WWE

The two Vorlons on either side of Valen - are they the two Koshes?

Spoiler: Vorlons

Probably not. They both use the purple encounter suit design, and the Vorlons themselves aren't quite as golden as Kosh, nor are they as pale as Ulkesh. Not that that's iron-clad proof or anything. The color they glow could be as much an act of will as the rest of their appearance, and as Sheridan once pointed out, there's nothing stopping Vorlons from switching suits, and for all he knew, the Vorlons had been sending someone different every time "Kosh" visited home and came back. That doesn't seem as likely, considering how varied the Vorlons who were definitely different acted, like Kosh, Ulkesh, and the Vorlon from the beginning of War Without End, who was either a third Vorlon or Ulkesh with a cold so his voice and chest-lights were different.

 

[Marsden]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vorlons are not in fact incorporeal energy beings (like the Organians), are they? I used to think they were, but then I remembered how Kosh was poisoned and of course that couldn't happen if the Vorlons were pure energy.

Also I have this question about the final scene in War Without End II:

Spoiler: WWE

The two Vorlons on either side of Valen - are they the two Koshes?

Spoiler: WWE

We are all Kosh.

 

[JD]

1x01 - Midnight on the Firing Line


Although I'm glad I watched The Gathering first, this pilot gave more time to characters that hadn't yet intrigued me, such as G'Kar and Londo. Dazzling interplay between those two in particular which I hope continues for a good long while. I also have a better idea of how each race is different from one another now.

Londo and G'Kar are amazing, the best characters on the show, and I'd say two of the best in any sci-fi TV series. There stories go in some very unexpected directions, and even when they do go to a place we expect there's still twists in there that make things very different from what we thought they were. I think people familiar with the show will know exactly what I'm talking about with that last part.

 

[BlueStuff]

1x02 - Soul Hunter

Well, this wasn't quite the follow-up I was hoping for. The first (of many?) "weird space thingamajig of the week" episode of the show, and one that hopefully won't be revisited anytime soon. It actually reminded me of a TOS show, and not one of the good ones.

I used to play a drinking game with "Spock's Brain" where you take a drink every time you hear the word "brain", and a similar one could probably work with this episode, except with the word "soul". There was some interesting world-building going on (Delenn is a Minbari bigwig, eh?) but I preferred the way the premiere achieved this with historical conflict, rather than via these goofy soul vampires.

Speaking of that first episode, I only just remarked how great Londo and G'Kar are, and in response I get an episode without either of them? How displeasing.

There was some very dodgy acting going on throughout. Needless to say, I hope this isn't the level of performances I should expect from guest stars going forward, but the regulars didn't do much better. In that scene where Delenn warbles hysterically about the dangers of the soul hunter, Garibaldi and Sinclair barely react with any concern at all. In fact, their general disposition throughout, even after his escape, suggested that there was little more than a pesky grave robber running around the station. The whole thing just came off as so bizarre. Do they even believe in souls?

I continue to enjoy the show's atmospheric music, which helped me not to take the odd events of this episode too seriously. The added details provided about Delenn were also a plus. I'm warming up to Ivanova, as I slowly, reluctantly bid farewell to Commander Takashima.

I won't give it a one-star score as I suspect that somewhere down the road, there's a new level of BAD Babylon 5 that I've yet to see, but overall, I hope the next episode is better. And that I don't have to hear the word "soul" again too soon.

Rating: **

- It was tough to mourn that less-than-artful dodger for his rather shortsighted con job, but I liked that he received a full, profoundly spoken funeral service. But was this detailed gesture an Ivanova thing, or a station thing?
- "Somebody kill that speaker" - I momentarily interpreted this as "somebody kill that guy, the one speaking."
- So this is what people were talking about when referring to the show's bad effects. Hopefully that insectoid black market gangster gets squashed sometime soon, just so I don't have to see his suit again.
- Next episode wishlist: Bring back Londo, bring back G'Kar, bring back Vorlons.

"Soul and soul! What is soul?!"

 

[DonIago]

FWIW, if you can make it through the first season, I believe you'll find the second season (and others to come) quite rewarding. Having introduced a friend to the show with weekly viewings, I'm speaking with some qualification.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

^^I doubt you're going to enjoy the "River of Souls" TV movie even if it does feature the acting talents of Martin Sheen and Ian McShane.

 

[DonIago]

Hm. A month ago Ian McShane wouldn't have rang a bell for me. Now that he does...man, he was wasted on River of Souls.

 

[BlueStuff]

^^I doubt you're going to enjoy the "River of Souls" TV movie even if it does feature the acting talents of Martin Sheen and Ian McShane.

I love Ian McShane.

 

[BlueStuff]

FWIW, if you can make it through the first season, I believe you'll find the second season (and others to come) quite rewarding. Having introduced a friend to the show with weekly viewings, I'm speaking with some qualification.

Oh, I have every intention of watching the first season.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Don't worry, there's plenty of Londo action in 1x03 "Born to the Purple".

 

[Gov Kodos]

Oh, I have every intention of watching the first season.

The first season has a lot to appreciate the second time through, even an episode like this. There are some clunkers but there will still be stuff in them that makes more sense after you watch the series.

 

[Mysterion]

In that scene where Delenn warbles hysterically about the dangers of the soul hunter, Garibaldi and Sinclair barely react with any concern at all. In fact, their general disposition throughout, even after his escape, suggested that there was little more than a pesky grave robber running around the station. The whole thing just came off as so bizarre. Do they even believe in souls?

Maybe the just didn't believe that someone could steal a soul. I think Garibaldi and Sinclair were being justifiably skeptical at that point of the story.

 

[Forbin]

Souls are a plot point in the future, but this was the only time they spend a whole episode on them (except for the movie), so don't worry.
I've always thought of the Soul Hunter guy as "Evil Popeye."
Martin Sheen was awful in River of Souls. He phoned that one in, as they say. The movie was pretty awful too, anyway, IMHO.

 

[Forbin]

Maybe the just didn't believe that someone could steal a soul.

They just hadn't met the right redhead yet.

 

[Farscape One]

BABYLON 5 is one of my favorite scifi series ever made. One of its strengths is how so much gets paid off down the road.

Without spoiling anything, a LOT of the first season is touched on again later. Every episode, even some of the more clunky ones, have little gems that make you appreciate the series for what it truly is... a tv novel.

 

[Reverend]

Spoiler: Vorlons

Probably not. They both use the purple encounter suit design, and the Vorlons themselves aren't quite as golden as Kosh, nor are they as pale as Ulkesh. Not that that's iron-clad proof or anything. The color they glow could be as much an act of will as the rest of their appearance, and as Sheridan once pointed out, there's nothing stopping Vorlons from switching suits, and for all he knew, the Vorlons had been sending someone different every time "Kosh" visited home and came back. That doesn't seem as likely, considering how varied the Vorlons who were definitely different acted, like Kosh, Ulkesh, and the Vorlon from the beginning of War Without End, who was either a third Vorlon or Ulkesh with a cold so his voice and chest-lights were different.

Spoiler: Season 3 - WWE

Small point, but that was indeed Ulkesh on Minbar with Sinclair (as depicted in 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows'.)
One assumes the difference in design is due to production having not quite zeroed in on the look they wanted at that point.
It's not crystal clear if those two Vorlons we saw with Valen are either of the two we know, but they don't appear to be. Between that episode and their appearance in the 'In Valen's Name' comic, you'd it would've been made more explicit.
Regardless, Kosh did encounter Valen at some point during the war, hence his reaction in 'The Gathering'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vorlons are not in fact incorporeal energy beings (like the Organians), are they? I used to think they were, but then I remembered how Kosh was poisoned and of course that couldn't happen if the Vorlons were pure energy.

Also I have this question about the final scene in War Without End II:

Spoiler: WWE

The two Vorlons on either side of Valen - are they the two Koshes?

Nope. It's made clear in the pilot movie that they're biological (yellow blood cells, susceptible to poisons) but very *very* alien, and powerful. They still need ships and jumpgates to get around, planets to live on, technology to communicate.

Also...

Spoiler: Season 4

Susceptible to heavy ppg fire, high voltage and being torn apart by Shadows who are also very much physical beings (as they're also susceptible to heavy ppg fire...and nukes.)
Plus it's not like their encounter suits are just for show. Remember that they had them back when they were supposedly walking open among the younger races. While they can survive outside for a time at least, they're most comfortable in their own atmosphere.

 

[Reverend]

EDIT: double post

 

[David cgc]

Spoiler: Season 3 - WWE

Small point, but that was indeed Ulkesh on Minbar with Sinclair (as depicted in 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows'.)
One assumes the difference in design is due to production having not quite zeroed in on the look they wanted at that point.

Spoiler: WWE

I know the novel shows Ulkesh was ambassador to Minbar during season 2, but there are two reasons I think it might've been another Vorlon (well, two and a half) in this episode; as mentioned, he seems to be being voiced by someone else, he seems like less of a prick that Ulkesh (that's the half reason), and, in the corrected, Lurker's Guide episode order, Ulkesh was reassigned to Babylon 5 in the previous episode. Vorlons are allowed to travel, and do it a lot, but there are enough points against them being the same character that I don't mind having a third Vorlon in the mix.

Sigh, I always hate doing this, but does anyone know if the scriptbooks have a more conclusive answer on this, vis a vis the introductions in "War Without End" and "Walkabout"?

 

[Reverend]

Spoiler: WWE

I know the novel shows Ulkesh was ambassador to Minbar during season 2, but there are two reasons I think it might've been another Vorlon (well, two and a half) in this episode; as mentioned, he seems to be being voiced by someone else, he seems like less of a prick that Ulkesh (that's the half reason), and, in the corrected, Lurker's Guide episode order, Ulkesh was reassigned to Babylon 5 in the previous episode. Vorlons are allowed to travel, and do it a lot, but there are enough points against them being the same character that I don't mind having a third Vorlon in the mix.

Sigh, I always hate doing this, but does anyone know if the scriptbooks have a more conclusive answer on this, vis a vis the introductions in "War Without End" and "Walkabout"?

Honestly, I'm happy to write off the minor inconsistencies as just stemming from the realities of a TV production. Same deal as the different uniforms, links, PPGs, and of course Delenn & G'Kar's make-up design in 'The Gathering', to say nothing of updates to various CG models, effects work, and sound design over the run of the show.
Not that have a problem for the alternative either, it's just the evidence against it is story (writing) based while the evidence in favour is down to superficialities like costumes and casting.

 

[RandyS]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vorlons are not in fact incorporeal energy beings (like the Organians), are they? I used to think they were, but then I remembered how Kosh was poisoned and of course that couldn't happen if the Vorlons were pure energy.

Also I have this question about the final scene in War Without End II:

Spoiler: WWE

The two Vorlons on either side of Valen - are they the two Koshes?

I don't know for sure, but I believe they're supposed to be.