B5: Thirdspace

[Starfleet Engineer]

I thought this movie was pretty good. The only thing I didn't care for was the wrapped-up-with-a-bow conclusion and the cliche scene where everyone "wakes up" and stops fighting and asks "what's going on." The idea of opening up "thirdspace" seems like it would've created endless possibilities for continuing the series. I guess there was no time before the cancellation. Did anyone else think "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" when Sheridan went on his Spock-like space walk toward and into the artifact? Another similarity was having the artifact "calling" people, kinda like Spock and V'ger. Overall, I was pleasantly suprised by Thirdspace. While I probably would be willing to watch In The Beginning again, I probably won't watch this one a second time.

 

[Tulin]

TS gets a bad wrap from most people. Most don't think it's as good as it really is(see, I can do that too - see ItB thread).

I guess, being a bit of a Lovecraft fan, I could see and appreciate what JMS was trying to do. As a homage to those works, it is well done. Overall, I think it is a polished and very well done movie and I have seen it more than ten times now.

 

[zakkrusz]

I enjoyed it, personally, along with all the other B5 movies. This thread reminds me that I need to pick up the movie set sometime (Crusade and Legend of the Rangers as well).

 

[Starfleet Engineer]

We never did find out why it was "calling" people or anything about the city, right?

 

[DWF]

I really liked Thirdspace, it was a more standalone action/adventure romp in the tone of ID4 and the final battle was amazing for it's time.

 

[Lindley]

We never did find out why it was "calling" people or anything about the city, right?

There are theories that Legend of the Rangers would have tied back into Thirdspace eventually had it continued to series, but nothing definite, no.

 

[Elemental]

Definitely good stuff to be found in this movie but overall it's not on the scale of B5 at its best.

One of the things that irked me most about it was the whole "enemy even more powerful than the Vorlons/Shadows" plot (which becomes all the worse when it is rehashed yet again in Legend of the Rangers". If you're going to make an enemy that is supposed to be even more epic and powerful than your series' greatest foes, hitting the audience with a one hit deal does very little but serve to belittle show's main enemies. While it served for some interesting scenes when Lyta was channeling the Vorlons and describing how their pride led to many mistakes, the Thirdspace aliens were otherwise pretty forgetable.

It reminds me of something Ron Moore said in regards to some of their tendencies in early Star Trek TNG - if they had a bad guy that they wanted to prove was super tough, the best way to do this was to have him beat up the show's greatest warrior (i.e. Worf). After about 2 or 3 times of doing this though, it ends up serving to make Worf look more like a pussy than say anything remarkable about the enemy.

 

[Tulin]

Indeed ^

That was my impression of Worf from the first season. he seemed to be always getting beaten up. It was all the more stupid because he would always be doing that growl/face snarl thing.

Or maybe it was just that I HATED Worf SO much.

 

[Mr Light]

THIRDSPACE was a mixed bag. Amazingly cool CGI space fight with lots of different ships versus slow and uninteresting station-side plot where nothing really happens until the end. It did have some great Lyta moments though. And good ole John "Nuke 'Em" Sheridan

The worst part about it? The Thirdspace aliens... so powerful they could mentally take over VORLONS... only took over a few random people on the station and then just rioted without purpose. They didn't try to take over CNC or anything as I remember. Not to mention it's awfully convenient how they didn't possess Sheridan, Delenn, Garibaldi, Zack, etc, etc, or the captains of all the spaceships shooting at them...

 

[Candlelight]

Wasn't this one of the original season 4 eps that got boosted up into a movie? I remember reading JMS had like 28 episodes to cram into the final (4th) season and the movies allowed him to shove some stories sideways.

 

[Reverend]

No, this was always going to be a movie. The cramming in the 4th season had more to do with getting the Earth & Minbari cival wars over before the end of the season. Originally the cliffhanger was to be Sheridan's capture, so it was only 3 or so eps that got compressed or shifted into Season 5.

As for making the Thirdspace "anti-life" (spot the Kirby reference) aliens; remember that in the tradition of Lovecraftian tales, the ancient and powerful race always "almost" makes it into our world, or has some obscure weakness like the need for spells or stellar allignments to set them free. Otherwise, if they really are that powerful then the show is over. It was already established that the younger races had ZERO chance of beating the Vorlons and Shadows in a fair fight so if these things got loose it really would have been armageddon.
As for their ability to take over Vorlons, remember that these are Vorlons from a million years ago, I imagine they've grown at least a little in power since that time. For one thing the "race memory" seamed to think a race that are all telepathic to be something worthy of comment. So we can summise that back then, not all Vorlons were so gifted.

Small aside, does anyone else think the "true" appearance of the Vorlons is vaguely reminisant of the 'Elder Things' from 'At the Mountains of Madness'? The radial symmetry is a bit of a clue and of course Thirdspace aliens themselves seam to have a touch of Cthulhu about them.

 

[JoeD80]

One of the things that irked me most about it was the whole "enemy even more powerful than the Vorlons/Shadows" plot (which becomes all the worse when it is rehashed yet again in Legend of the Rangers". If you're going to make an enemy that is supposed to be even more epic and powerful than your series' greatest foes, hitting the audience with a one hit deal does very little but serve to belittle show's main enemies.

...

After about 2 or 3 times of doing this though, it ends up serving to make Worf look more like a pussy than say anything remarkable about the enemy.

This was kind of the point of the movie: the point was made in the series was the Vorlons and Shadows weren't as badass as they wanted us to think they were. So here the Vorlons started believing their own hype and that they were the biggest most baddest race out there, and they were brought down by their own arrogance.

 

[Candlelight]

No, this was always going to be a movie. The cramming in the 4th season had more to do with getting the Earth & Minbari civil wars over before the end of the season.

I guess it must've been in the beginning that became the movie, as I guess Atonement would've been much bigger had they not had the movies.

 

[Starfleet Engineer]

remember that in the tradition of Lovecraftian tales

Please excuse my ignorance, but what are "Lovecraftian tales" and why should we remember them?

 

[Tulin]

HP Lovecraft was a horror fiction writer from the early part of the twentieth century. He created a whole mythos based on ancient and very powerful beings that could be seen as either aliens or gods. They generally came from space, sea or "dark places" and were so advanced and/or old we could not communicate with them. Their intentions were almost always malevolent. Lovecraft's style of writing is extremely evocative and more than once I have had to put down a book and pick it up again much later, due to it affecting me too much. Lots of writers have based their material today on Lovecraft, with JMS being an example. Anytime you hear mention of "an ancient race that dwells in dark places" in B5, it is usually a reference to Lovecraft.

 

[JoeD80]

I guess it must've been in the beginning that became the movie, as I guess Atonement would've been much bigger had they not had the movies.

It would have been a 3-part episode.

 

[Reverend]

Interestingly, according to the Terry Jones chronology, the events of 'Thirdspace' actually take place right in the middle of the episode 'Moments of Transition'. It would explain the absence of Lennier, among other things and add an interesting twist behind Lyta's rejoining the corp.

 

[David cgc]

That doesn't work. Delenn was on Minbar taking care of the Civil War, and didn't get back to B5 for another few episodes. And one wonders what Bester was up to during the events of the movie...

No, I prefer to think it takes place just prior to "Atonement," and at the beginning of that episode, Zack was just getting some tears mended and a final fitting by the Minbari tailors.

 

[Cutter John]

I remember watching this when it first aired and thinking the Lovecraft connection was really pretty weak. It really felt more like a rehash of Severed Dreams, and A View From the Gallery. i.e. The station has to fight off yet another an overwelmingly powerful fleet.

Maybe if they'd done the old 'A pilot gets a look on the other side of the gate and goes mad' cliche, or otherwise hinted that there was something even worse trying to get through, I might've had an easier time buying it.

It was nice seeing Ivonova one last time though.

 

[Reverend]

So the whole thing about widespread telepathic influence, not-so-random acts of violence by ordinary people, a single person driven to near insanity with the knowledge of what is coming, scribbling insane warnings all over the walls about ancient and powerful octopus like trans-dimensional beings of near infinite malevolence watching from their dark and ominous city of untold dread...this by you is a WEAK connection?
And you think it's more along the line of "Severed Dreams" and "A View From The Gallery" just because there's a big battle outside the station?
Superficial much?