Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

[The Nth Doctor]

Tony didn't have the time to think about the minutia of what he could with whichever stone in the heat of the moment. He had one opportunity to turn the tables as emphasized by Dr. Strange. He seized that moment and did the simplest thing he could do before Thanos could react and retake the Gauntlet.

 

[Booji]

But they didn't need to use all six stones. Only one. The Time Stone.

"Time stone, freeze time for all these invading hordes." Snap!
"Thor would you please drop all these time frozen people into the sun."
And finally after Thanos and his cronies disappear into the heart of the uncontrolled thermonuclear explosion we call the Sun. "Unfreeze." Snap!

I don't think that's how the Time Stone works on it's own. You would have to use the Time Stone in conjunction with another, probably the Space Stone and Power Stone at a minimum, to get the effects you're looking for.

 

[gblews]

The treatment of Thor was one of things that pissed me off most about the movie. The guy is broken, suffering from trauma from losing everything and everyone he loves and on a complete downward spiral and it's played for laughs. There are hints of how much pain Thor is in, but hey lets brush that aside to have jokey, fat Thor fall asleep

God, I am so glad the producers decided against following the path you describe above. What you're describing is the "safe" route which, I think, would have made a much less interesting movie. Having all of the characters soaring above it all and seeming to be untouched by the horror of losing half the population of the universe would have been much less interesting.

Showing Thor expressing his guilt and grief by drinking and basically giving up was a masterstroke, as was showing Cap's therapy session, Hawkeye's decent into darkness, etc., is what separates Endgame from other non MCU superhero movies. It is the reason we are here debating story and character rather than Fx and spectacle.

The MCU makes these blockbuster extravaganza's, but they play out like small indie movies with the emphasis always on the human aspect. This would all have been lost if they'd decided that despite all that happened, Thor would remain his invincible, untouchable self, his dignity fully intact.

It was SO much more interesting watching Marvel stay true to itself to the end.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

God, I am so glad the producers decided against following the path you describe above. What you're describing is the "safe" route which, I think, would have made a much less interesting movie. Having all of the characters soaring above it all and seeming to be untouched by the horror of losing half the population of the universe would have been much less interesting.

Did you actually read my post? My entire issue with Thor's arc is that they make a joke out of what he is going through by turning him into a bumbling fat guy who falls asleep. My issue is that they didn't go deep enough with Thor and his arc isn't as satisfying for me as it should be. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that i want the characters to be 'untouched' and 'soaring above it all'. I never said that, nor did I imply it.

 

[Refuge]

You left out their height and blood type.

That's funny. Why do we have to identify ourselves to have an opinion as a member of an audience? Buy a ticket that's all it takes

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

@theenglish you can be willingly naive if you want to.. I don't care.. that shot was framed that way for a reason

 

[Refuge]

Did you actually read my post? My entire issue with Thor's arc is that they make a joke out of what he is going through but turning him into a bumbling fat guy who falls asleep. My issue is that they didn't go deep enough with Thor and his arc isn't as satisfying for me as it should be. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that i want the characters to be 'untouched' and 'soaring above it all'. I never said that, nor did I imply it.

I think the character of Thor has always carried the responsibility of being a demi oh I just want to say it without the 'demi' , a... god. We see him in The Avengers as coming to retrieve Loki, it's like he owes Earth this. He was really the only powerhouse too that could take on Hulk back then. (Gosh I remember those days when being The Hulk mattered for something and I still laugh at that side punch that Hulk gave Thor near the end). Obviously not going for the head weighed on Thor more than the other Avengers and the legacy of that was what we see in this movie.

I have mixed feelings about his portrayal in Endgame. He was at times a fat joke, something other characters would not be depicted as. Let's be honest if other characters were shown as fat and a joke there would be hell to pay. This was a character suffering and mentally and emotionally lost, so laughing at that seemed kind of a mean set up.

SAVED by the lovely scene with his mother.

 

[ITDUDE]

But they didn't need to use all six stones. Only one. The Time Stone.

"Time stone, freeze time for all these invading hordes." Snap!
"Thor would you please drop all these time frozen people into the sun."
And finally after Thanos and his cronies disappear into the heart of the uncontrolled thermonuclear explosion we call the Sun. "Unfreeze." Snap!

Great you just spoiled the next HISHE video

 

[Trekker4747]

The story with Thor did seem to be part dealing with his guilt over The Vanishing and part "fat joke," but the stuff with him coping with the guilt seemed to get just a touch more focus to the point of it being the main "arc" for him, especially after talking to his mother.

But his "story" also seemed to be one the things "yadda, yadda, yadda"'d over (a'la Professor Hulk) in the five-years-later flash forward. I mean, Thor goes from being internally pissed and brooding when they go for Thanos again but with enough wit and such to him to give the "test" on Captain Marvel by summoning Stormbreaker, he goes for the head then yadda, yadda, yadda he's fat, constantly drinking and a little bit more of an idiot than usual.

I do wish the "story" with his appearance had come full circle a bit more when he was on (was it a new ship or still the Benatar?) at the end with Starlord and Starlord didn't boast about how now he had the better body than Thor. (Referencing the conversation the Guardians had when first picking Thor up out of space.)

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I have mixed feelings about his portrayal in Endgame. He was at times a fat joke, something other characters would not be depicted as. Let's be honest if other characters were shown as fat and a joke there would be hell to pay. This was a character suffering and mentally and emotionally lost, so laughing at that seemed kind of a mean set up.

SAVED by the lovely scene with his mother.

I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if say Black Widow, had been the one to deal with her pain through drinking and emotional eating. The treatment of Thor and his pain being the butt of the joke just seemed disrespectful and dismissive mainly to people in the audience who might be coping with loss the same way. None of the other characters seem to take his pain seriously, so why should the audience.

Thor meeting his Mother was probably the highlight of the movie for me until it got downplayed with the 'eat a salad' line.

 

[David cgc]

I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if say Black Widow, had been the one to deal with her pain through drinking and emotional eating.

She shoved a peanut butter sandwich into her face to keep from crying the second she was off the phone.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Is this movie going to end up a "Reichenbach Falls" moment for Natasha?

Hopefully, no; her death needs to stand

Oh, I just remembered something else I meant to comment on. I loved Pepper getting to kick ass in her own armor.

Her function in the armor is to rescue people and give them aid alongside Tony (Iron Man) and Rhodey (War Machine), and as such, she's called Rescue.

I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if say Black Widow, had been the one to deal with her pain through drinking and emotional eating. The treatment of Thor and his pain being the butt of the joke just seemed disrespectful and dismissive mainly to people in the audience who might be coping with loss the same way. None of the other characters seem to take his pain seriously, so why should the audience.

Thor meeting his Mother was probably the highlight of the movie for me until it got downplayed with the 'eat a salad' line.

As much as I loved the movie, I agree that this was a unneeded plot point, and was wrong. This kind of plot line being done to a powerful male character only ends up giving MRA's a point to assail the movie industry with.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

She shoved a peanut butter sandwich into her face to keep from crying the second she was off the phone.

Not the same. That scene made it clear that Nat was dealing with her pain by keeping busy and looking for other problems to keep her occupied. I figured she took a bit of a sandwich because a girls got to eat. We also didn't get repeated scenes of Nat eating peanut butter sandwiches, whereas Thor was near constantly drinking or drunk.

 

[Gavin70]

Black Widow dies (apparently she viewed herself as the thing she loved the most she had to sacrifice to get the soul stone)

Hawkeye got the soul stone. And it's not sacrificing the thing you love the most. It's a sacrifice of something you love. Black Widow sacrificed herself for Hawkeye and apparently the stone accepted that sacrifice.

Spider-Man keeps unmasking and announcing he's Peter Parker

Yeah, unfortunately I think we're stuck with that approach since it's been used since the 2002 movie. For some reason movie studios feel that if they're paying an actor they have to show their face as much as possible. I'd have thought the advantage of a hero with a full mask was that you'd only have to use the actual actor for unmasked scenes and could therefore pay them less. I was advocating for Tony Stark not to die because they could have easily continued using Iron Man in movies without unmasking him. Even if RDJ couldn't be persuaded to provide a couple of hours voice acting it's not too hard to find someone who sounds similar to do the voice.

Captain Marvel's haircut

My daughter hated that too. We spend the entire drive home with her complaining about it. And she's a huge Captain Marvel fan.

Where did old man Captain America get the new shield from considering it was destroyed in the battle with Thanos?

Well I imagine he had time to get a new one made in the years between when he got married (in the late 40's?) and returning to give the shield to Sam. And if we accept what the directors said about him living in an alternate timeline he could well have been active as Captain America for all those years too.

Why did Doctor Strange say to Stark he couldn't tell him if this was the one version of events he saw where they would be successful as it wouldn't work only for moments later to raise his finger to indicate it was the one version, leading to Stark to grab the Infinity Gauntlet?

My interpretation was that by that point everything had gone correctly and there was only one more thing to do so Strange just provided confirmation for Tony that what he was thinking was the correct way to finish it. If he'd told him earlier things might have gone differently so that Tony didn't end up exactly where he was at the end. Tony knowing he had to get the stones and snap might have led him to approach the initial fight differently winding up with him being killed earlier.

 

[Infern0]

I can only imagine what the reaction would have been if say Black Widow, had been the one to deal with her pain through drinking and emotional eating. The treatment of Thor and his pain being the butt of the joke just seemed disrespectful and dismissive mainly to people in the audience who might be coping with loss the same way. None of the other characters seem to take his pain seriously, so why should the audience.

Thor meeting his Mother was probably the highlight of the movie for me until it got downplayed with the 'eat a salad' line.

I'm going to say just let it go.

For one thing, yes you are right if it was a female there would be uproar from a "certain demographic", and I'd be saying they were complaining over nothing as usual. So here's an idea, let's not be like them and get "offended" at everything otherwise every movie discussion is going to descend into idiotic screeching.

For another, Thor just needed to wallow for a bit, by the end of the movie he was back fighting heroically and at the end of the day he offered the levity that the movie needed, I think Chris did a good job.

 

[Infern0]

God, I am so glad the producers decided against following the path you describe above. What you're describing is the "safe" route which, I think, would have made a much less interesting movie. Having all of the characters soaring above it all and seeming to be untouched by the horror of losing half the population of the universe would have been much less interesting.

Showing Thor expressing his guilt and grief by drinking and basically giving up was a masterstroke, as was showing Cap's therapy session, Hawkeye's decent into darkness, etc., is what separates Endgame from other non MCU superhero movies. It is the reason we are here debating story and character rather than Fx and spectacle.

The MCU makes these blockbuster extravaganza's, but they play out like small indie movies with the emphasis always on the human aspect. This would all have been lost if they'd decided that despite all that happened, Thor would remain his invincible, untouchable self, his dignity fully intact.

It was SO much more interesting watching Marvel stay true to itself to the end.

I have to be honest this is a straw man argument.

He took issue with playing Thors pain for laughs rather than taking it seriously and having a really dark, depressed thor

Personally I have no issue with the way it was handled but I understand his view on it

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I'm going to say just let it go.

For one thing, yes you are right if it was a female there would be uproar from a "certain demographic", and I'd be saying they were complaining over nothing as usual. So here's an idea, let's not be like them and get "offended" at everything otherwise every movie discussion is going to descend into idiotic screeching.

For another, Thor just needed to wallow for a bit, by the end of the movie he was back fighting heroically and at the end of the day he offered the levity that the movie needed, I think Chris did a good job.

I'm not offended by it. I think the Russo Brothers and Marvel in general have a good track record when it comes to portraying the characters in trauma. I just think they dropped the ball when it came to Thor and it's just a narrative decision that didn't work for me. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Thor as he was depicted in Ragnarok and I get why Hemsworth would want to continue portraying Thor like that. I just think a lot of the nuance of Thor's situation got overshadowed by the fat suit and big lebowski jokes. Hemsworth does pain REALLY well and I think it was just a missed opportunity to let that shine through.

 

[Black Manta]

Just saw it. Some random thoughts...

-I loved the lines that referenced the older movies. Wasp calling Cap Cap. Falc "On your left."

-Bucky should have been given the shield. He could become Cap and we could have a Captain America And The Falcon. Instead we have Winter Soldier/White Wolf and Captain Falcon.

-I am very biased because Wanda is one of my all time favorites, but she rocked in these past two movies. She should have her own movie instead of a TV show.

-Carol was really unnecessary to the movie. I agree with some of the other posters in that she feels really forced like Red Hulk and Sentry was in the comics.

-I have no idea how the time travel worked out in the end. Cap was in another timeline? Is there another timeline in which they didn't bring everyone back?

-If Loki got away with the Cosmic Cube/Tesseract then did they have to get it back from him off screen?

-Loved the Ancient One zapping Chitauri.
-Loved the plot point of Nebula picking up her past's thought transmissions.

-Didn't care for the women heroes coming together for a photo op during the final battle. I can buy the way it happened in IW, but here there was too much going on for all of them to just happen to be together.

-Val on Aragorn!!! I want a Defenders movie now.

-T'challa remembers Clint's name. I guess he does care.

-Ant-Man punches space whale!! But seriously, he has got to be stepping on some of his own people at that point.

-So did Tony just pull all the stones off Thanos that quickly without Thanos noticing?

-Black Widow's death was kind of empty. You knew when those two were sent to get the soul gem that the one with the kids isn't going to die.

-Tony gets a funeral but the Widow doesn't? They can't have a join funeral?

-Fury doesn't get a line? Not one?

 

[theenglish]

I have to admit that I kept expecting Thor just to "suck it in" and return to his ripped body.

 

[Gavin70]

Didn't care for the women heroes coming together for a photo op during the final battle. I can buy the way it happened in IW, but here there was too much going on for all of them to just happen to be together.

I've heard a lot of complaints about it. It was a photo-op but I thought it was well done and a good way of highlighting the fact that they've managed to establish a pretty good cast of female heroes, despite having only one female led movie so far.

I had more issues with a similar scene in Age of Ultron when the Avengers lined up for a promo shot in the opening battle. That felt more forced (to me) than the scene in Endgame.