Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Okay...
First of all, I haven't seen any of the other Avengers relinquish their weapons of choice, or mass-produce them (or let them be mass-produced) or leave a blood-sample or two to recreate the serum.
Secondly, of course, it was Tony's wish to control and "his taking charge" that made him take a nuke up through a space-portal with little to no hope of return, that made him take the gauntlet and essentially irradiate himself to death. Absolutely. Just please explain to me how exactly did that (especially the latter instance) advance him personally, since he's all about egotism and narcissism? Or was it his control issues that led him to essentially lay down on the wire (twice) so that no one else can do it and outshine him?
(Just BTW ad CW... it's a bit difficult and contradictory to argue both sides, the one where Steve does the right thing by going off the rails... but once Tony does the same thing it's wrong. But I guess in your point of view he can't do right in any case.)
Tony didn't give up his armour, he actually went further to make a second skin of it inside him (yes I know it's from the comics, and how the hell can he have the mass of 3-4 suits inside his chest without it falling through him...), tried to create the Sokovia Accords to neuter the entire Avengers Initiative over his singular fuckup, puched up with everyone who disagreed, dragged his wife into it, and made saving the world yet again about "look at this cool thing I totally can make but should I?" and the movies keep applauding him for it.
OK, did we see them tell her where Tony was last seen? I don't remember that from the post credits scene in Captain Marvel, but it also usually takes several viewings before I remember everything in a movie or TV episode.
Why not? I really don't think we know enough details about how all of that worked to say what she could, or could not have done.
What, no love for the "Captain Marvel's post-credits scene didn't happen, she ran across Tony by chance, and the Avengers were just burned out and that's why they had minimal surprise when a glowy woman dropping a spaceship on their front lawn" theory?
Most Norse gods weren't nearly as cut as Thor in modern depictions. And in the Epics/Edda's, Thor would go undercover at banquets and eat nearly the entire thing himself. It's wall to wall glutteny in some stories. I'm glad we're finally getting a canon version of it.
Oh, that's right.
it's a good movie.. a victory lap for the franchise where everyone gets a good send-off. Actual analysis of the plot bears out that it would not hold up even under simple scrutiny and normally that would be a problem.. but since the fan service is earned and satisfying I will let it go. that's why I won't analyze this film. I will just say I like it and now I can move on away from Marvel
Just came back from my second viewing (and after rewatching the Iron Man trilogy yesterday) and I loved it even more the second time. Every Tony scene hit all the harder this time after viewing his trilogy and makes his final sacrifice all the more poignant. "Proof that Tony Stark has a heart," indeed. 
I spotted the Howard the Duck cameo, but only because I was looking for him. It was a very "blink and you miss him" moment and he's partially obscured anyways. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that they spotted Sif during the final battle and I kept my eye out for her, too, but I didn't see her. I did see one female character that I didn't immediately recognize, so it might been her but the moment happened so quickly, that it's hard to tell. I'm looking forward freeze framing every shot of that battle sequence.
My audience, however, sucked in comparison to my first viewing, laughing at only half the jokes and rarely cheering at the big moments.
I spotted the Howard the Duck cameo, but only because I was looking for him. It was a very "blink and you miss him" moment and he's partially obscured anyways. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that they spotted Sif during the final battle and I kept my eye out for her, too, but I didn't see her. I did see one female character that I didn't immediately recognize, so it might been her but the moment happened so quickly, that it's hard to tell. I'm looking forward freeze framing every shot of that battle sequence.
My audience, however, sucked in comparison to my first viewing, laughing at only half the jokes and rarely cheering at the big moments.
Hmm ... I just realized the soul stone seemed to have zero relevance to the plot of the movie. In the comics the stone has a well-known ability to steal souls plus hosting those souls in a "paradise dimension", plus some lesser-defined abilities. In the movie the stone does ... what? We see Thanos briefly encounter Gamora in what could be some kind of afterlife dimension, but she never appears again and it's never repeated with anyone else (notably, Natasha). And as far as I know, Thanos never activates that individual stone for any purpose. Am I overlooking anything?
Is there any onscreen reason stating why that stone was even needed, other than "gotta catch 'em all" just because?
Could Thanos have just said, "Never mind, five are enough"?
On another topic, I REALLY wanna know what Cap and the Red Skull talked about when he took the stone back to Vormir.
Is there any onscreen reason stating why that stone was even needed, other than "gotta catch 'em all" just because?
Could Thanos have just said, "Never mind, five are enough"?
On another topic, I REALLY wanna know what Cap and the Red Skull talked about when he took the stone back to Vormir.
Maybe Red Skull didn't need to hang around after the stone was gone, so Steve didn't see him.
The Soul Stone is what actually kills everyone in The Snap.
Soul World was a big missed opportunity. Very disappointing.
In her own movie she spends most of it shaking off brainwashing to make her unemotional and basically a living weapon. Her seeming "Wooden" was the point.
Claudia will not agree to disagree.
First, there's no mass-producing Thor, Captain America, Hulk, Scarlet Witch. So yeah keeping repulsor technology from giving us flying cars is a huge, huge, huge thing.
Second, conceding Stark has terrible control issues doesn't mean he's not capable of self-sacrifice in a crisis. Doesn't even imply it.
Third, it is Stark who has it both ways, no one else.
Fourth, wanting to kill someone who was not responsible for their actions is maybe understandable, but it's wrong, wrong, wrong. And it wasn't a matter of temper: Stark was totally calm when he didn't have any great difficulty with shoot at sight, which is wrong, wrong, wrong. This is like execution of the mentally ill, except without troubling with a trial and jury.
The problem tge Stark in this movie is that to justify all that money (or maybe satisfy Downey's vanity,) hamfisted failed tearjerking was foisted on us. The problem was not that Stark was a flawed hero, much less that Stark was really a villain. The objection is to the in universe adulation when not everyone should feel that way. Nebula---Nebula!---gets all sentimental about his first death scene!
As to Peggy Carter secretly marrying Steve Rogers? I suppose on second thought, allowing intelligence officers to have secret lives is exactly how SHIELD=HYDRA worked. It could not have been a simple matter of "us" not being told it was to Steve Rogers. Carter's employees knew Steven Rogers was Captain American and would have drafted him.
First, there's no mass-producing Thor, Captain America, Hulk, Scarlet Witch. So yeah keeping repulsor technology from giving us flying cars is a huge, huge, huge thing.
Second, conceding Stark has terrible control issues doesn't mean he's not capable of self-sacrifice in a crisis. Doesn't even imply it.
Third, it is Stark who has it both ways, no one else.
Fourth, wanting to kill someone who was not responsible for their actions is maybe understandable, but it's wrong, wrong, wrong. And it wasn't a matter of temper: Stark was totally calm when he didn't have any great difficulty with shoot at sight, which is wrong, wrong, wrong. This is like execution of the mentally ill, except without troubling with a trial and jury.
The problem tge Stark in this movie is that to justify all that money (or maybe satisfy Downey's vanity,) hamfisted failed tearjerking was foisted on us. The problem was not that Stark was a flawed hero, much less that Stark was really a villain. The objection is to the in universe adulation when not everyone should feel that way. Nebula---Nebula!---gets all sentimental about his first death scene!
As to Peggy Carter secretly marrying Steve Rogers? I suppose on second thought, allowing intelligence officers to have secret lives is exactly how SHIELD=HYDRA worked. It could not have been a simple matter of "us" not being told it was to Steve Rogers. Carter's employees knew Steven Rogers was Captain American and would have drafted him.
