Avengers: Age of Ultron- Grading & Discussion (spoilerific)

[Trekkin]

His fear was simply that the Avengers wouldn't be enough to save the world. The six of them would die, and the world would be easy pickings

And he was right - the team wasn't enough. It's just the solution was actually to make more heroes to pick up where the main team couldn't, not a 'shield' to moddy-coddle or enforce a single vision of utopia on everyone. That part of his motivation was addressed.

The rest of it was covered in IM3.

My problem with Natasha's 'sterilised' reveal was that she basically put it up as making her a 'monster.' By itself you could excuse it as the characters misplaced self -loathing and it would be fine, but Bruce not protesting and seeming to agree is...ergh.

She probably didn't mean the implication to be quiet so direct (she probably meant that her choosing to give up any other priorities besides assassinations was 'monsterous'), but the idea that a woman who can't bear children is 'less' than a person is a cliche that needs to die. Seeing it appear in a modern blockbuster (even by accident) was...uncomfortable.

It didn't ruin the movie for me though.

 

[theenglish]

For me the implication was that the reason she is upset is not just that she can't have children but for the first time in her life she is having an emotional reaction to the violation that was done to her in the past. I saw it as a comment on the horrible things that are done to women in some societies--that they are treated a property or not allowed to be responsible for choices about their own bodies. From the character's perspective, letting down her wall with Bruce, with some help from Wanda, has forced her to confront feelings that she has kept so buried she didn't even realize they exist.

 

[BillJ]

No, it just says "African Coast".

Thanks. Just misremembered then. Stupid getting old.

 

[Beagleman]

November 22 1984, 4 days older than me.

24 days younger than me. Makes me feel old.

 

[TheSeeker]

13 year younger than me.

 

[Enterpriserules]

While the movie has some good themes, it feels extremely busy with not enough narrative focus. It is as if it’s trying to serve too many masters. the film is trying to finish the second phase of the Marvel franchise, set up the third phase, as well as tell a compelling story. There is so little explanation for the things happening on screen and if you blink you’ll miss the small amount that was there. From the enhanced twins, to Thor’s sight bath, so much is glossed over and never fully fleshed out; partly because it’s feels like it’s just set up for the next action scene. The action is good and there is a moment near the end of the movie that looks like splash pages from Avengers comics which is a lot of fun. Yet, it’s nothing revolutionary and it might just be because theirs so much action to digest that it begins to wash over you like a raging waterfall.

There are new characters in the movie, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Vision. Vision and Scarlet Witch are the two most interesting, with Vision stealing some scenes from the likes of Thor. Quicksilver, who’s character was seen in Days of Future Past (albeit with a different actor) and who’s scene was the stand out in that film gets nothing like that here. It’s as if they realized there was not topping that so why bother trying.

The rest of the main characters play off each other with ease. It’s a well oiled machine at this point. Unfortunately there are some things that get short shrift, like the romance between The Hulk and Black Widow. This really deserves it’s own movie as does Black Widow herself. The humor and banter, a Joss Whedon trademark are well represented with Captain America’s line about Iron Man watching his language getting huge laughs. It was also nice to see Hawkeye get something more to do than be mind-controlled. Renner gives some of the best lines in the film, bringing a humanity and levity to the craziness. He seems to be speaking as much to the audience as Scarlet Witch when he talks about a flying city, evil robots and he’s got a bow and arrow and how none of this makes any sense. It’s a nice wink to us in the seats.

Conclusion

This is a competent Marvel movie. All the actors and action are good, it’s the story that bogs down the film with the weight of all that’s it’s trying to accomplish that left me underwhelmed. It feels formulaic, as the plot is much the same as the original Avengers – team ends up fighting amongst itself, gets beat down, gets a pep talk from Fury, saves the day. One of the pitfalls of Marvel’s cinematic universe is that there is not always enough distinction between the films. I one of the things that made Winter Solider so good, it continued on the Captain America story while feeling fresh and new. Here’s hoping that Anthony and Joe Russo can bring that same sensibility from their work with Cap to Avengers: Infinity War part one and two. Age of Ultron is rated 3 out of 5 Captain America shields.

You can really tell this movie needed more time (the 3 hour cut Joss had) or it needed more laser-like focus on the Ultron story to really be a good movie. It's unfortunate that Marvel interfered and muddled the movie and made it just feel more like filler than something that can stand on it's own. It was my constant gripe on The 602 Club that this just needed more time to breathe as a story.

 

[shapeshifter]

^I didn't want to make a stink but yeah, I would have appreciated a little more substance over all the flash-bang.

 

[Enterpriserules]

^ Glad to hear I am not alone.

 

[Mage]

^I didn't want to make a stink but yeah, I would have appreciated a little more substance over all the flash-bang.

Personally, I don't NEED a lot of substance in an Avenger movie. It really is supposed to be nothing more then boomboombangbang. The solo movies are far more geared towards substance.

I mean, as a film, WInter Soldier was a far superior product then AoU. But looking at just the funfactor, AoU delivered plenty.

To me, it's like comparing a 5-star gourmet meal to some propermade spareribs or a high quality pizza. Sure, the 5-star gourmet meal delivers in quality, ingredients, effort put into it, development and planning.
But damn, if those spareribs don't taste fine on a saturday night with cold, cold beer and some friends.

People take this stuff way to seriously if you ask me. And if you take something like a movie about a supersoldier, a man in a robotsuit, a green monster, a god and two assasins seriously..... you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Enterpriserules]

My issue was not that the movie was not fun, it is. The problem was that it does not tell the Ultron story well because it is too all over the place with it's story that is serving too many masters. It's a fun movie, but there is a better one in there, so let Joss make his movie or give it some serious focus. I'm just frustrated that it's a muddled mess when A1 was so good and so focused. But then, phase 2 has just not been as strong as phase 1, except the incredible Winter Soldier, which is really Marvel's best film yet.

 

[Mage]

My issue was not that the movie was not fun, it is. The problem was that it does not tell the Ultron story well because it is too all over the place with it's story that is serving too many masters. It's a fun movie, but there is a better one in there, so let Joss make his movie or give it some serious focus. I'm just frustrated that it's a muddled mess when A1 was so good and so focused. But then, phase 2 has just not been as strong as phase 1, except the incredible Winter Soldier, which is really Marvel's best film yet.

I guess YMMV.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Because that sort of blasé attitude is not the kind you should have when writing a character well?

There's nothing blasé about a character having a natural attraction / relationship with someone who is in a similar position. In fact, that mirrors real life.

Let me restate more clearly. I'm not sure where you get this idea that other people think Nat should be 'invincible', especially since I just listed a few reasons why they wouldn't.

that was a two part address: you said:

Considering how popular CA:TWS is in terms of her character, where she's shot and bleeding, has the rug completely pulled out from under her multiple times, and often has to be saved by Steve

That is not the first time i've heard someone pointing that out as a "problem." Add that to the social media whining about her alleged characterizations "problems" in AoU, and the only way they will be satisfied is for BW to be invincible--in other words, on the same level as the super-powered characters.

Well, I'm glad we agree they're both dumb. (Though at least one can be explained with technobabble, the other's just common sense! )

I did not say either were dumb, but convenience of plotting. It advanced the story and/or provided a payoff, so you can accept it, ot allow that to "ruin" the film for you.

If you can tell me what trope "guy gets in fight with Nazi, fight is interrupted when a helicarrier falls on them" falls into, I'll gladly retract this argument, and be greatly amused.

You are missing the point.

Was it a Rapunzel trope for Princess Leia to be rescued from the Death Star, or Jabba's sail barge? Did her character take some undignified blow to her gender less a heroine (and instead a stereotype) because a male rescued her?

I do not recall some outcry indicating that back in the 70s/80s, or from audiences exposed to the Star Wars series in recent years.

Why?


People with an agenda can find problems where none exist--such is the abused, political emotionalism of the day.

Ehh, Human beings are complex. Fictional characters reflect those complexities and the views of the people who create them, and those of the people who view/read them. So when you look at someone's interpretation of a character, you're seeing, as best as you can tell, what they think.

So, what was really on the minds of those who wrote the screenplay for AoU in regard to BW?

 

[urbandefault]

I had no problem understanding what Natasha meant with the "monster" thing. She's damaged, and she knows it.

Watching "Scandal" I've heard similar speeches from Huck, Jake, and other characters who were trained by B-613.

Those evil organizations take people and kill their souls, making them heartless killers.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[RoJoHen]

I had no problem understanding what Natasha meant with the "monster" thing. She's damaged, and she knows it.

Watching "Scandal" I've heard similar speeches from Huck, Jake, and other characters who were trained by B-613.

Those evil organizations take people and kill their souls, making them heartless killers.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Agreed. It honestly surprises me that people are having a hard time with it.

 

[Rincewiend]

Saw it last night, i enjoyed it...
Too the local cinema only showed it in 3D...

 

[Corran Horn]

I had no problem understanding what Natasha meant with the "monster" thing. She's damaged, and she knows it.

Watching "Scandal" I've heard similar speeches from Huck, Jake, and other characters who were trained by B-613.

Those evil organizations take people and kill their souls, making them heartless killers.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Agreed. It honestly surprises me that people are having a hard time with it.

She said that line right after describing that the sterilization was the final test/step so she wouldn't have any problems killing people. She literally says exactly that. That's where the 'monster' comes from.

 

[Zaku]

‘Avengers: Age of Ultron': Scarlett Johansson on Black Widow’s journey

In the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Scarlett Johansson’s spy-assassin Black Widow stands apart from the rest of the Avengers.

Widow, also known as Natasha Romanoff, doesn’t have superpowers, a stand-alone film or a plethora of action figures. Until the events of “Avengers: Age of Ultron,” she was the team’s only female member. And unlike her Avengers companions who have families and friends outside the super-team to protect, Widow lacks human ties to the world she’s trying to save.

“Age of Ultron” explores Widow’s desire for connection, revealing her painful past and redefining her role on the team.

“Regardless of gender, characters work when they have substance and when they are grounded in something that is visceral and true,” Johansson told the Los Angeles Times last month. “I loved that she is sort of this reluctant superhero, that she is kind of a mutant in some ways, that she didn’t really choose this path for herself.”

Hero Complex sat down with Johansson to talk more about Black Widow’s past, her relationship with Bruce Banner in “Age of Ultron” and her career aspirations. Spoilers lie ahead.

In the farmhouse bedroom, Natasha tells Bruce Banner an emotional secret about her past. What was it like to portray a character who’s had something like that taken from her?

You know, the thing that really touches me about the character is that she’s kind of like an orphan. Not only does she have no family, like she was taken away from her family, but her family — or whatever potential of that — was taken away from her at such a young age that she’s just been sort of floating through. I think she buries herself in her work because she doesn’t have anything really outside of that. She’s just kind of untethered without that. And S.H.I.E.L.D. originally and now Avengers becomes this kind of weird dysfunctional family for her — a home, some strange sense of normal. I think I could never have tapped into the character if I didn’t sympathize with her in some way, in just imagining, if I didn’t feel for her as well and just kind of see this lost soul that she is. It’s kind of hard to do when you have your own family, when you’re grounded to someone, or people. But I think when you have something, there is something even more potent about the idea of not having it. If your life feels full, and then you take the elements away that make it feel full, you know, you’re stuck with that kind of emptiness that she must feel. So I guess it’s sort of like working backwards a little bit.

 

[Greg Cox]

Isn't there a title card that says 'South Africa' on the bottom left corner of the screen as they're zooming in on the freight ships? Or did I imagine that?

I think it just says something like "Off the coast of Africa" or words to that effect.

As though Africa was a country and not a continent!

 

[Turtletrekker]

And, of course, Natasha had just had her mind f****d with by the Scarlet Witch. Any repressed feelings of loss or regret or guilt were suddenly ripped to the surface without warning. Surely that would have affected her mind-set in that situation.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

^I didn't want to make a stink but yeah, I would have appreciated a little more substance over all the flash-bang.

Personally, I don't NEED a lot of substance in an Avenger movie. It really is supposed to be nothing more then boomboombangbang. The solo movies are far more geared towards substance.

I mean, as a film, WInter Soldier was a far superior product then AoU. But looking at just the funfactor, AoU delivered plenty.

To me, it's like comparing a 5-star gourmet meal to some propermade spareribs or a high quality pizza. Sure, the 5-star gourmet meal delivers in quality, ingredients, effort put into it, development and planning.
But damn, if those spareribs don't taste fine on a saturday night with cold, cold beer and some friends.

People take this stuff way to seriously if you ask me. And if you take something like a movie about a supersoldier, a man in a robotsuit, a green monster, a god and two assasins seriously..... you're gonna have a bad time.

I don't take this stuff seriously, but my complaints are similar to Enterprisrules . The movie got a bit boring - the action, not being grounded in enough space around the character moments just got tedious. There's not much that's inherently interesting in action sequences, especially endless ones with hordes of robots coming at your heroes, unless there's real character stakes happening. The closest they got was a bit of stakes around Hawkeye after we met his family, a bit around Scarlet Witch when Quicksilver went down. Where were stakes for Stark, Thor, Cap, Hulk and Romanov? There should have been more stakes for Stark, but they blew past so much of what was happening with him, when his actions were the plot driver - that was weird. Some of this should have mattered to him, changed him in some way, but... nothing.

My biggest problem, though, was that Ultron was a lousy villain. He had no stakes, there was no explanation whatsoever as to why he was all psychotic destructo - or maybe there a was a bit somewhere in the blink of an eye in the midst of fight scenes so it had no weight. He was just a plot device to give the heroes hordes of robots to fight. *snore*

It was mildly entertaining, but not particularly interesting. Skimming this thread I can see how it ended up this way. Endless set up for convoluted joined universe crossover nonsense. All the stuff that blew superhero comics at the Big Two, now invading the movies. What a bummer.