Avatar the Last Airbender Season 3 Discussion

[Christopher]

Hmm, we've been discussing the universe a lot in the other Avatar thread, but not specific episode discussion, so I figured I'd resurrect this thread for my comments about this week's episode.


So, we get the backstory on Avatar Roku and Fire Lord Sozen, and the surprise is that there aren't any real surprises about Sozen and his role in the war. What we learn is that Roku was his childhood friend and that they grew apart and ended up on opposite sides, and that Sozen allowed Roku to die in order to clear the way for his launching of the war. And we learn (or did we know it before?) that he deliberately attacked the Air Nomads first in hopes of killing the new Avatar. Although it apparently took him 11 years to get around to it.

Plus we learn that Roku was Zuko's maternal great-grandfather, and have it spelled out explicitly that Zuko's heritage makes him the key to restoring balance. Aang's and Zuko's (A and Z!) parallel journeys are given context now; in different ways, they are both Roku's heirs, inextricably bound together. It will take both of them to save the world.

Production-wise, it was nice to hear Ron Perlman as Sozen. Not only is he an effective villain voice in his own right, but he sounds similar to Mark Hamill, the voice of Ozai, Sozen's grandson.

In other voice news, we finally get to hear Iroh speak with his new voice, provided by Greg Baldwin. I'm not sure how I feel about it. He does a pretty good Mako impression, but the problem is, it's a good recreation of how Mako sounded in the '70s or '80s, which isn't quite the same as how he sounded a year or two ago. In the intervening time, Mako's voice grew deeper and even more gravelly and his English speech became somewhat faster and more fluid. Also, Iroh's voice wasn't just Mako, it was Mako playing the character of Iroh. Baldwin is doing a good generic Mako impression, but that's not the same as playing Iroh, capturing the personality of the character.

Well, I guess it's better than nothing, and maybe he'll improve over time. Still, nothing can truly compare to the original.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I've read that Baldwin understudied under Mako for the earlier seasons, obviously it was known Mako wasn't well.

I have to reach to back in my memory to compare, but I'm thinking of Mako's work in Conan the Barbarian, especially the narrative voice over in the begining, his voice was much rougher even then. I don't think Baldwin is actually trying to duplicate the voice, he is acting the character of Iroh in his own fashion. We really won't get to see the best of his work unless/until we see Iroh in a few different situations displaying different emotions.

Ang mentions that Sozen ambushed the Air nomads in 'The Headband'. Ang was around for the first skirmishes, I think, and disappeared before the nomads were wiped out. In 'The Southern Air Temple' in the first season, we first see the skeletal remains of the monks, and it's news to everyone that the Fire nation had massacred them. Sokka and Katara wouldn't necessarily have been privy to the exact history though, the knowledge might have common elsewhere.

This episode was fairly low key, devoted mainly to backstory. I'll be expecting a major confrontation of some sort in the next episode, given the way this season has paced so far. The next upcoming is titled "The Runaway", can we guess who it is that runs?

 

[Christopher]

LaxScrutiny said:
I have to reach to back in my memory to compare, but I'm thinking of Mako's work in Conan the Barbarian, especially the narrative voice over in the begining, his voice was much rougher even then.

Well, yes, it's a given that Mako's voice has always been rough. I'm just trying to put into words the subtle ways in which his voice evolved with age, and that's hard to do with precision.

I don't think Baldwin is actually trying to duplicate the voice, he is acting the character of Iroh in his own fashion. We really won't get to see the best of his work unless/until we see Iroh in a few different situations displaying different emotions.

Well, it sounded a little stilted to me. Essentially, Baldwin's performance sounded more like I would expect an idealized "Mako voice" to sound than Mako's own voice performances in Avatar and Samurai Jack did. Because my mental model of that voice is sort of averaged out from his performances over my lifetime, biased in favor of the early stuff from the '70s when I originally became aware of him and his unique voice (such as his roles in M*A*S*H and The Incredible Hulk). Baldwin's delivery reminds me of that earlier Mako, with his slower, more careful speech and slightly heavier accent of the time, and without the added texture of age. And without much emotion either, so that it sounded more like a technically superb imitation than a performance with life to it. I'm hoping that's just because of the nature of the scene, with Iroh being very calm and expository. We'll see how Baldwin works out emotionally if we get a scene involving Iroh and tea.

Well, I'm just being nitpicky. I have a very sensitive ear for such things, and what would be an uncanny impression for most people never sounds entirely right to me. Still, I think I'd rather have someone who could capture Iroh's character and charm without sounding like Mako than someone who can sound like Mako without capturing the character.

Ang mentions that Sozen ambushed the Air nomads in 'The Headband'. Ang was around for the first skirmishes, I think, and disappeared before the nomads were wiped out.

Well, yes, I knew that the massacre had occurred. My point was, I didn't know whether it had been established before that Sozen's reason for the massacre was specifically to try to kill the next Avatar.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I just saw 3x05 "The Beach" and loved it. It was nice to see another side of Azula, one that's socially awkward. I also liked how they made her come off as someone who has a strong threatening rapport with others even when she's trying to be fun and personable.

The rest of the episode was equally well written and nicely topped off with a charming snapshot of our mischievous Fire Nation gang.

Well done.

 

[mvkemp]

Everything's being put under the gun now. Aang only has a couple of months to learn firebending and there's not a teacher in sight. Is Iroh going to break out and become his teacher? Is Zuko going to come around, find Aang and be able to teach him?

I think Zuko is going to come around and want to stop the war, but not to the point where he will train the Avatar to hurt his father. It almost seems like something he'd do himself.

How do you think this is going to play out?

 

[exodus]

mvkemp said:
Everything's being put under the gun now. Aang only has a couple of months to learn firebending and there's not a teacher in sight. Is Iroh going to break out and become his teacher? Is Zuko going to come around, find Aang and be able to teach him?

I think Zuko is going to come around and want to stop the war, but not to the point where he will train the Avatar to hurt his father. It almost seems like something he'd do himself.

How do you think this is going to play out?

Is Iroh impling Zuko has Avatar blood in him?

Zuko and Ang are meant to be friends, to heal the rift that was formed by their ancestors. By closing that rift, will complete the circle again. I think this is why Zuko is always so angery and doesn't know why. His soul is at unrest because he isn't doing what he's meant to. He has a destiny he's not fullfilling.

Frankly, I wish they would do a story about Iroh and his trip to the spirit world after his son's death. I think it would do a great deal in explaining his understand of the spirits and his knowledge of such things.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

In season 1, Ang only touched the surface of waterbending with Katara for most of the season, he mastered it in the final 3 episodes of season 1. In season 2, he didn't meet Toph until episode 26, and didn't really train until episode 29. So I don't think he is at all behind this season for learning firebending, he is a quick study and he will learn as fast as the plot requires.

A neat reference, Roku calls his Earth training "bitter work" in this episode, also the title of the episode where Ang learns from Toph.

I'm also not really certain he needs to learn firebending the way the plot's going. It seems to be hinging more on soul and spirit, reconciliation and redemption, rather than the power of bending. The season could end without him mastering fire and still be a fully satisfying story.

Is Iroh impling Zuko has Avatar blood in him?

I don't think that's the implication. The Avatar is a reincarnation of the spirit, it's not a blood inheritance. ie if the cycle continues, it won't necessarily an ancestor of Roku's that becomes the next Fire-born Avatar. But it seems Zuko's spirit is conflicted since he is decendant of both Sozu and Roku, and he kind of holds the conflict and betrayal in his soul. Souls are funny that way.

Things I noticed in the last episode that struck me, Roku's battle against the volcano was kind of pointless once the island had been evacuated, and they made a point of showing the ships fleeing several times. It was kind of like a last big gesture from someone who was at the end of his lifetime anyway. And then, why did Sozu show up to help initially? Did he decide to betray Roku only at the last moment? Or did he have that plan all along, and came to the island to make sure Roku would never leave, feigning friendship only to make sure he was in place to ensure Roku's demise at the best opportunity?

Final thing, they showed a clear shot of the Crown-Prince-Poneytail-Holder(TM) rolling on the floor as everyone was fleeing. How did Iroh get it, the town was buried immediately? And now Zuko has it, I'm reminded of Katara's necklace that figured prominantly in several ways throughout the first season.

 

[exodus]

^^Roku.

Thanks, I couldn't remeber his name. I meant to write "Is Iroh impling Zuko has "Roku's" blood in him" not "Avatar". Being I couldn't recall his name I used "avatar" instead.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Christopher]

LaxScrutiny said:

Is Iroh impling Zuko has Avatar blood in him?

I don't think that's the implication. The Avatar is a reincarnation of the spirit, it's not a blood inheritance. ie if the cycle continues, it won't necessarily an ancestor of Roku's that becomes the next Fire-born Avatar.

Well, it certainly can't be an ancestor unless there's time travel involved. I think what you mean is that it won't necessarily be a descendant of Roku's. You're right, Avatar status isn't genetic. The idea, as I said above, is that Aang and Zuko are both inheritors of Roku's legacy in different and complementary ways. It's a yin-and-yang thing.

Things I noticed in the last episode that struck me, Roku's battle against the volcano was kind of pointless once the island had been evacuated, and they made a point of showing the ships fleeing several times.

Well, from up there he probably couldn't see whether everyone had been evacuated. For that matter, I would imagine the evacuees wouldn't have all left at once; these things take time. And it was possible the retreating ships could still be in danger from lava bombs and such, I suppose.

And then, why did Sozu show up to help initially? Did he decide to betray Roku only at the last moment? Or did he have that plan all along, and came to the island to make sure Roku would never leave, feigning friendship only to make sure he was in place to ensure Roku's demise at the best opportunity?

I think that Sozen acted on impulse to help his old friend, but then when he saw Roku gassed and dying, his darker side recognized the opportunity and his ambitions overrode his friendship. Maybe he rationalized it by convincing himself that Roku was already a goner after being exposed to the volcanic gases, that he might die anyway and quick was better than slow.

Final thing, they showed a clear shot of the Crown-Prince-Poneytail-Holder(TM) rolling on the floor as everyone was fleeing. How did Iroh get it, the town was buried immediately?

The same way we have artifacts from Pompeii in museums, I guess. The ruins of the town could've been excavated at any time in the ensuing century.

 

[FordSVT]

Re: New Avatar the Last Airbender tonight!!! (09/21/2007)

Christopher said:

Meredith said:
Totally Spies and Code Lyoko pretty much the same thing style wise.

The same as Avatar??? Oh, gods, no. Not even close. For one thing, Avatar is far better animated. For another... my god, have you even looked at them? Totally Spies is a fairly slavish imitation of a conventional bishojo anime style. Avatar has a distinctive look whose closest equivalent in anime is the canon of Hayao Miyazaki, but in which the character design style is a blend of Western and Asian cartoon conventions. Code Lyoko has a bizarre character design style all its own, with angular features and enormous foreheads, totally unlike anything else.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about, but I believe you!

Avatar is amazing, best animated series I've ever watched. Very grown-up and the writing is better than 98% of the live action stuff on TV. If the movie is half as good it will still be great!

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: New Avatar the Last Airbender tonight!!! (09/21/2007)

How many episodes of Avatar: Season 3 have been shown thus far? I heard that the UK has gotten ahead of the US and that more episodes have been released possibly up through episode 9 of Season 3.

 

[Christopher]

Re: New Avatar the Last Airbender tonight!!! (09/21/2007)

The last one shown in the US was Chapter 6.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: New Avatar the Last Airbender tonight!!! (09/21/2007)

Technobuilder said:
How many episodes of Avatar: Season 3 have been shown thus far? I heard that the UK has gotten ahead of the US and that more episodes have been released possibly up through episode 9 of Season 3.

Yes, episode 9 has aired in the UK. It seems that the show is called Avatar: The Legend of Aang over there. Someone on a message board says that the U.S. (and Canada) is the only place where the show is called Avatar: The Last Airbender. Everywhere else, it's The Legend of Aang. I've seen the episodes and the show continues to be nothing short of spectacular. There's some good stuff about Katara and water bending in episode 8.

Here are a few screencaps from one of my favorite moments of episode 9. Look away from your monitor and scroll past them if you don't want to see them.
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[Technobuilder]

Re: New Avatar the Last Airbender tonight!!! (09/21/2007)

Yep, I watched up through Episode 9 last night since it was Halloween and I was bored.

Any clue on if Ep 10 has aired yet? I heard that there was a possibility.

Also...

I don't usually call the show by its full title and simply refer to it as "Avatar". This is true of the voice overs for all the recaps at the beginning of the episodes as well.

But yes, I knew about the alternate titles in the rest of the world.

Thanks

 

[Gojirob]

Avatar TLA Book 3 discussion (Spoilers up to Chapter Nine)

For the most part, I found Chapter Nine to be amusing, as it was meant to be, but with some darkly serious spots, most especially Zuko continuing to suffer from 'Be Careful What You Wish For' syndrome. When Aang was on the verge of a complete breakdown, his waking visions were hilarious.

But it was two visions from his dream that caught my eye. One was the presence of Zuko above the water Aang fell into. It reinforces the presaging of their future alliance, and is the mirror to dreams Zuko has had.

Even more telling was the world being devastated by Sozen's Comet. That could merely be symbolic of the Fire Lord's power, and yet it makes me wonder if, independent of the boost it offers Fire Benders, the comet itself doesn't represent a threat.

I also still wonder, despite it being a firmly minority-of-me opinion, whether the Comet's boost to FireBenders isn't a fake. My idea : Sozen beat the Air Nomads because he struck first, and struck brutally. The comet was about when he was at his most furious in combat, and since it seemed to give his conquest a divine footing, Sozen let it be said that it raised him and other FB warriors up. Just a theory, but I still think it could be the case.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: Avatar TLA Book 3 discussion (Spoilers up to Chapter Ni

It's possible that the comet is a misdirect.

However the moon does tend to enhance Waterbending Techniques so I wonder if there are not natural enhancers to all 4 bending types throughout the world/nature.

The Sun for Fire maybe...

Not sure on the other two though.
Air?
Earth?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Avatar TLA Book 3 discussion (Spoilers up to Chapter Ni

Waaah! I missed the last half of the episode due to a power failure, and damn Nickelodeon doesn't rebroadcast it anytime during the week. What is wrong with them? They show reruns of Spongebob fifty-seven times a week but can't be bothered to show their best series ever more than once a week?

And I did read the description of the episode on Wikipedia, but it's not the same.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Re: New Avatar the Last Airbender tonight!!! (09/21/2007)

I watch through episode 11, but I think the broadcast is delayed in a lot of areas. 10 and 11 are a two parter...

Spoiler: Spoilers for episodes 10 and 11

Both surtitled 'Day of the Black Sun', the team assaults the fire nation capital joined by many old friends, the Northern Air Templers, the Swamp benders and the Earth benders Katara freed from the fire nation prison island. Azula of course learned of the eclipse in Ba Sing Se, and the Fire Lord is in hiding in a hidden bunker. The assault is a failure, but Iroh has now escaped from prison, and Zuko confronts his father, displays some new fire/lightning mastery, and leaves to join the Avatar. Suki is alive and captive of Azula. We learn the fate of Zuko's mother, who was responsible for the previous fire lord's death and was banished by her husband. Ang kisses Katara for real.

Spoiler: Oh yeah, and very cool...

Appa's new body armour!!!

A lot of the scenes were in the season 3 jump start preview show if you caught that. I think we have now witnessed all the scenes from the preview so the rest of the season is a mystery.

 

[Technobuilder]

Re: New Avatar the Last Airbender tonight!!! (09/21/2007)

Just saw the "Day of Black Sun" Two-Parter.

That was great. This show just keeps getting better and better.

 

[Vendikarr]

The week long Avatar event started last night, with Zuko joining the group.

I like that he's not trusted immediately, and that it's Tosh who open to his joining because she has the least amount of history with him.

It's a good start to the end of the series. Only four more half hour episodes, and a two hour movie on Saturday.

I also noticed that there's an Avatar panel at Comic-Con this year, where they are going to air the final episodes.