Avatar or District 9...

[Gojira]

Although I do like both films Avatar is the one I like much better by far. I think it just may be where I am at in my life but Avatar was a fun enjoyable movie that along with its spirituality was a movie that brought a sense of wonder and hope. District 9 was just too bleak and depressing.

 

[Amaris]

Although I do like both films Avatar is the one I like much better by far. I think it just may be where I am at in my life but Avatar was a fun enjoyable movie that along with its spirituality was a movie that brought a sense of wonder and hope. District 9 was just too bleak and depressing.

Agreed, the spirituality in Avatar is one my favorite aspects of the movie.

 

[Kibbin]

I think there was a great well acted sci-fi movie out last year that I rate as an all time classic, it's called Moon.

But which do I prefer out of the two mentioned, well I'd probably put d9 above Avatar but it is a little depressing and in my state these days I try and watch a bit more happy optomistic stuff.

 

[Amaris]

I think there was a great well acted sci-fi movie out last year that I rate as an all time classic, it's called Moon.

But which do I prefer out of the two mentioned, well I'd probably put d9 above Avatar but it is a little depressing and in my state these days I try and watch a bit more happy optomistic stuff.

I like your avatar.

 

[3D Master]

Although I do like both films Avatar is the one I like much better by far. I think it just may be where I am at in my life but Avatar was a fun enjoyable movie that along with its spirituality was a movie that brought a sense of wonder and hope. District 9 was just too bleak and depressing.

Agreed, the spirituality in Avatar is one my favorite aspects of the movie.

Uh... but Avatar doesn't have any spirituality. It's just people born with the ability to plug into a planetary, organic, computer network. There's not spirituality involved.

As opposed to District 9 where the question of the human, or rather sentient spirit is heavily questioned/examined.

 

[Amaris]

Uh... but Avatar doesn't have any spirituality. It's just people born with the ability to plug into a planetary, organic, computer network. There's not spirituality involved.

I disagree, and fortunately, to make my point, Merriam Webster disagrees with you also:

Main Entry: spir·i·tu·al

1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2 a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3 : concerned with religious values
4 : related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic


There is a great deal of spirituality involving the planet, the way the Na'vi interact with Eywa (their God). This falls under definitions #1, #2a & #4. It qualifies under the first definition because the communication between the Na'vi and those who have died is a corporeal to incorporeal communication. The second definition, of course, as the Tree of Souls and the Tree of Voices are considered sacred and holy. The fourth definition because Home Tree is considered holy and sacred because the spirit of Eywa also lives there. Keep in mind, too, the way animals that are killed for food are treated. This, too, is in line with the sacred nature of where the Na'vi live, and that Eywa is all encompassing, making everything sacred and holy.

As opposed to District 9 where the question of the human, or rather sentient spirit is heavily questioned/examined.

Yeah, there's a bit of that philosophy in District 9, too.

 

[3D Master]

Uh... but Avatar doesn't have any spirituality. It's just people born with the ability to plug into a planetary, organic, computer network. There's not spirituality involved.

I disagree, and fortunately, to make my point, Merriam Webster disagrees with you also:

Main Entry: spir·i·tu·al

1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal <spiritual needs>
2 a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual>
3 : concerned with religious values
4 : related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : spiritualistic


There is a great deal of spirituality involving the planet, the way the Na'vi interact with Eywa (their God). This falls under definitions #1, #2a & #4. It qualifies under the first definition because the communication between the Na'vi and those who have died is a corporeal to incorporeal communication.

No, because Eywa is the planet-wide computer system, and the dead are stored in that computer systems memory banks. It's entirely corporeal.

The second definition, of course, as the Tree of Souls and the Tree of Voices are considered sacred and holy.

Being sacred par that 2nd definition is once again directly related to the first definition. A building or tree on Earth is considered sacred because of something spiritual. The tree in Avatar has got nothing to do with spirit, it's simply the most impressive memory bank around.

The fourth definition because Home Tree is considered holy and sacred because the spirit of Eywa also lives there.

The spirit of Eywa does not live there, it is part of the planetary computer system that is Eywa.

Keep in mind, too, the way animals that are killed for food are treated. This, too, is in line with the sacred nature of where the Na'vi live, and that Eywa is all encompassing, making everything sacred and holy.

No, that makes it a cold-hard factual corporeal truth. But I suppose saying prayer of the dead animals is the only thing truly spiritual going on. But a prayer, seriously?

 

[Amaris]

Nah, we're not getting into this. When it comes to debating spirituality with me, you will lose this argument, and I am not going to butt heads with you over something you will just refuse to accept no matter what information is brought to bear. You see, the dictionary definition should have been enough, since pointing out even one example (as I did) and then comparing it with the accepted dictionary definition (and they are compatible) is more than adequate to render your statement incorrect.

Move on.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I thought District 9 was wildly overrated. The aliens weren't depicted in a particularly original way. As always happens, they were depicted as humans under the skin, in order to appeal to the emotions of the audience by showing them familiar things. You had a regular-human 'dad' protecting his 'son.' Why couldn't the aliens, for instance, produce millions of offspring like many Earth species do, which would mean the 'dad' would have no motive to particularly care about that one offspring?

Avatar was the big-budget hooey I expected, but hey, it was fun to watch, so it gets my vote. The aliens were just funny looking Native Americans, with a very romanticized version of what their cultures (violent, bigoted, territorial) really were like. And just like District 9, any attempt at originality was sabotaged by the need to appeal to the audience's prejudices.

 

[Rii]

Nah, we're not getting into this. When it comes to debating spirituality with me, you will lose this argument

I find it difficult to believe that 3D Master has ever lost an argument. That people have committed suicide attempting to escape? Sure.

 

[Goliath]

Of the two, I preferred District 9. There was too much Rousseauian noble-savagery in Avatar for my taste.

The main character is a fairly despicable person at first and not at all easy to sympathize with. But eventually you do.

This was the coolest, most daring part of District 9 for me--the cowardly, selfish, and probably more realistic protagonist. And his mostly unpleasant end is good, too, better than Avatar's "everyone good is happy" ending.

Yes. Wikus was a "desk murderer" who wound up on the wrong side of the desk.

He does redeem himself in the end--but it's a close call.

In fact--most of the human characters in District 9 are pretty despicable. Maybe that's why I didn't object to the film's portrayal of the Nigerians, as some people have. They were essentially just an inversion of the multinational corporation and its mercenaries: magic is, after all, just a form of technology. Both of them sought to exploit the Prawns, and treated the aliens as means, rather than ends.

In fact, if you really think about it, the film offers an interesting reflection on the ways in which class and race influence our ideas of what constitutes 'crime.'

 

[Myasishchev]

I thought District 9 was wildly overrated. The aliens weren't depicted in a particularly original way. As always happens, they were depicted as humans under the skin, in order to appeal to the emotions of the audience by showing them familiar things. You had a regular-human 'dad' protecting his 'son.' Why couldn't the aliens, for instance, produce millions of offspring like many Earth species do, which would mean the 'dad' would have no motive to particularly care about that one offspring?

Because a civilization is unlikely (possibly cannot) arise in a species that uses a strong r-type reproductive strategy? I mean, if you don't give a crap about your offspring, then there is no desire to transmit knowledge down generations, or to even know or see the next generation, and then you'll never get to the point where the shared knowledge amongst your species is sufficient to build anything remotely as complicated as a spaceship.

I'm pretty firm in my belief that any alien civilization will be based on a K-strategy--small numbers of offspring, within whom the parents invest substantial resources. This follows the pattern of the most intelligent, social chordates, including humans, other primates, elephants, and cetaceans. Some cephalopods have pretty much all the makings of civilization, including language faculties, but lack concern about their children*, and hence will never rise up from the oceans to become a threat to man. But any alien capable of building a spaceship will find family important, unless they've gone immortal or something.

*Okay, and lifespans and anything close to real sapience. But the biggest obstacle is lack of child-rearing.

 

[stj]

^^^Heinlein juvenile, Red Planet Mars, has an intelligent species with metamorphosis. The juvenile stage isn't very intelligent and their is little care taken. The adult stage is intelligent and social. I don't think the k and r stategy formulation was current when written, but the family bond is a specific form of social bonding.

How intense is it really, in human beings? Elite groups such as Spartan Peers or the foxhunting classes sent the little buggers off as quick as practicable, to school or another family. For the poor, children are farmhands, or some other kind of retirement fund. Today, social security is better than children and family isn't what it used to be.

 

[Myasishchev]

The impulse is not so intense as to always override social and survival pressures. But there's a long difference between "not caring at all" and "being willing to sacrifice." I mean, cats will give up their children to save themselves or protect the rest, but (I think, from my observations) they feel bad about losing them. And children as farmhands--as an economic resource--is a novel phenomenon; for most of the couple of million years humans and human-like things have been around, I suspect children have been pretty much complete negatives as far as the parents' well-being was concerned. I doubt hunter-gatherer children ever fully pay back the debt they owe their parents, if for no other reason than because their parents are likely to rapidly die.

Regarding the aliens, I think basically the same Martians show up in Stranger From a Strange Land. I guess it's possible that an intelligent/civilized species could undergo that sort of life cycle--but it just moves the same problem to the second stage, and that's where, somewhere, there has to be an element of care, in order for elders to teach and juniors. (Well, maybe not the Martians, but they were telepathic.)

This teaching and caretaking situation would be less likely to form without the parent-child connection, because selection would, all things being equal, favor the parent who cared about her children solely over parents who frittered away their resources on everybody's children.

 

[Kibbin]

I think there was a great well acted sci-fi movie out last year that I rate as an all time classic, it's called Moon.

But which do I prefer out of the two mentioned, well I'd probably put d9 above Avatar but it is a little depressing and in my state these days I try and watch a bit more happy optomistic stuff.

I like your avatar.

What can I say, I prefered that Avatar to the one we're discussing now

 

[RAMA]

I would have ranked the sf movies of 2010 ( a great yr btw) like this

1. Star Trek
2. District 9
3. Avatar
4. Moon

 

[Davros]

I have not seen Avatar but District 9 seems like the more advanced plot and story.

 

[Amaris]

What can I say, I prefered that Avatar to the one we're discussing now

Touche.
I've had to wait a few days, but I still plan on seeing The Last Airbender before it leaves theaters.

I have not seen Avatar but District 9 seems like the more advanced plot and story.

I would recommend seeing District 9 before making the decision. You make end up changing your mind. Then again, you may not, but it's better to be informed about both options.

 

[Kibbin]

I didn't realise LAB was in theatres already. I'm a bit weary about seeing it as I wonder hwo they're going to cram so many hours of story into what is most likely a two hour movie. I may have to look though.

It's strange how some people seem to leaning toward d9 without seeing it, it has got some what of a reputation of a more cerebral movie from a lot of the movie critics, such as MovieBob http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies (don't know how to imbed links sorry). But to me this seems to has got peoples expectations a little high and lead to people getting a little dissapointed in the movie, due to it not actually being that original and ground breaking.