Here's how i'll boil it down for me. One movie i loved. One movie engrossed me. One movie i saw multiple times. The other was Avatar.
Avatar or District 9...
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
It really was. I mean, it's like the conversation about including them went like this:
A: I'm making a movie about alien bug things that's really obviously about how we treated black people badly during apartheid. I think I need some secondary villains as a plot device, though. Who should they be?
B: How about black people?
A: Well, I agree.
Plus it didn't make any sense at all that they were even there. The South African government just permits these noxious, criminal, and foreign private actors to collect advanced weaponry from the Prawns? Really? The UoSA can't stop them from doing that? Doesn't want to? Why again?
Of course the whole premise of the movie falters a little when you consider that we (Americans) didn't even want South Africa to have the atom bomb. I don't know what we would do if they got ahold of an alien starship.
I'm also pretty sure what South Africa was doing was unlawful and that there were legal recourses for the Prawns under both domestic SA law and international law that I'm sure tons of attorneys would be happy to take up.
Finally, I don't recall anyone questioning the ultimate wisdom of imprisoning all these aliens and attempting to rape their technology. I mean, it's very clear that there are more of these people, probably many more, with access to fully functional starships and superweapons. To use an analogy: a state on Earth would be very pissed if one of their ballistic missile submarines ran aground in a third-world country and the crew was put in a filthy internment camp while the third-world country's scientists attempted to break the security on the nuclear warheads. Why, I'd suspect the reaction would be violent and swift, and not even necessarily proportional.
Worse yet, from an American perspective, I doubt the aliens would differentiate between South Africa doing this and the human species doing this, and might place humans in the same moral category as the South Africans put Prawns (that is to say, eminently killable). What rational American (or British, French, Russian, Chinese) government is going to permit South Africa to do this?
And, yeah, obviously we more-or-less let them carry on this way when they were doing it to actual people. But black South Africans didn't have orbital bombardment capability.
auntiehill said:
This was the coolest, most daring part of District 9 for me--the cowardly, selfish, and probably more realistic protagonist. And his mostly unpleasant end is good, too, better than Avatar's "everyone good is happy" ending.
District 9.
Most likely the Nigerians were used because District 9 is confused. Or to confuse the issues raised.
Anyone who believed that Christopher Johnson was really shocked at the lab, and that such shock makes any sense at all, could believe Wikus' redemption. I couldn't.
And, if Wikus is not redeemed, the message that being a Prawn is hellishly bad reflects yet more of District 9's thematic confusion.
The remarks above about the basic implausibilty of the political premises of District 9 are quite correct. I was so confused that I forgot that Wikus was in his home country at one point.
District 9 shows promise for the makers, but it was a beginner's work. There is simply no comparison in quality with Avatar. The attempt to do so is so bizarre as to make me wonder what's going on in people's heads.
Anyone who believed that Christopher Johnson was really shocked at the lab, and that such shock makes any sense at all, could believe Wikus' redemption. I couldn't.
And, if Wikus is not redeemed, the message that being a Prawn is hellishly bad reflects yet more of District 9's thematic confusion.
The remarks above about the basic implausibilty of the political premises of District 9 are quite correct. I was so confused that I forgot that Wikus was in his home country at one point.
District 9 shows promise for the makers, but it was a beginner's work. There is simply no comparison in quality with Avatar. The attempt to do so is so bizarre as to make me wonder what's going on in people's heads.
I liked both, but I loved D-9 more. I mean I had to get D-9 on dvd right away. With Avatar, I have no urge to get the dvd right now. I have other dvds on my want list Id rather get first. I might get it eventually though...
also Wikus > Jake
also Wikus > Jake
Well, about the rest of the world's non-response to what MNU was doing:
1) MNU is an American company, the President is also American. As was that other High Official Wikus' father-in-law was speaking with when they discussed their experiments on him.
2) Back in 82, when the Aliens arrives South Africa was still a nuclear power. And the Cold War was also still on. There's no way in HELL South Africa, nor the Eastern powers (nor anyone else) would've allowed the US to come in a relocate the Prawns and their technology. None of the countries would've trusted the other to handle them, so realistically they'd just compromise to leave them where they landed. MNU, which is a Multinational Company (though American at its core) would've been their best alternative to total war.
1) MNU is an American company, the President is also American. As was that other High Official Wikus' father-in-law was speaking with when they discussed their experiments on him.
2) Back in 82, when the Aliens arrives South Africa was still a nuclear power. And the Cold War was also still on. There's no way in HELL South Africa, nor the Eastern powers (nor anyone else) would've allowed the US to come in a relocate the Prawns and their technology. None of the countries would've trusted the other to handle them, so realistically they'd just compromise to leave them where they landed. MNU, which is a Multinational Company (though American at its core) would've been their best alternative to total war.
I've seen both films twice now. District 9 is good, but it really struggled to hold my interest for a while both times.
Avatar had me glued to the screen, however.
Avatar had me glued to the screen, however.
South Africa was never really a nuclear power in the sense that America or the USSR or even Israel is; a scant few air-deliverable gun-type fission bombs capable of punishing Angola for unwanted interference in Namibia do not a credible deterrent to the US make. MNU's place of incorporation doesn't really matter for the political analysis, although this does lend a lot to my argument that MNU could be sued under the Alien (ha ha) Tort Claims Act, and probably under other provisions of US law, because US courts would easily be able to establish personal jurisdiction over the company.
As for the response of the Soviet Union, aside from the fact that the USSR was always much weaker than it appeared, they'd have as much an interest, and the same interest, in putting an end to South Africa's interstellar incident. In the face of annihilation, the USA and USSR always made a pretty good team.
It would probably be best to go about intervening via the UN, and I doubt any UNSC member would veto an action to stop South Africa from cutting up aliens whose compatriots have the ability to make humans extinct. I mean, we all know Christopher is coming back and turning the whole planet into District 10 (in theaters 2013).
As for the response of the Soviet Union, aside from the fact that the USSR was always much weaker than it appeared, they'd have as much an interest, and the same interest, in putting an end to South Africa's interstellar incident. In the face of annihilation, the USA and USSR always made a pretty good team.
It would probably be best to go about intervening via the UN, and I doubt any UNSC member would veto an action to stop South Africa from cutting up aliens whose compatriots have the ability to make humans extinct. I mean, we all know Christopher is coming back and turning the whole planet into District 10 (in theaters 2013).
I doubt anyone knew about what MNU was doing until one of their own employees blew the lid on it. It had been nearly 30 years since the aliens arrived and so far all the world knew was that they were a bunch of antisocial violent dicks who DESERVED to be locked up.
That and they're ugly too.
Let's face it, humans WOULDN'T care about a species like that and would've turned a blind eye to whatever misgivings were happening. As for the "they have superior tech" argument, the aliens showed they could hardly use it themselves so that may have dulled fears of retribution.
That and they're ugly too.
Let's face it, humans WOULDN'T care about a species like that and would've turned a blind eye to whatever misgivings were happening. As for the "they have superior tech" argument, the aliens showed they could hardly use it themselves so that may have dulled fears of retribution.
I agree with all of that. The prawns wouldn't have necessarily had any standing in any South African or international court, as they're not homo sapiens, and it's not obvious to me that South Africa or any major power would have treated them as such.
I suppose you could nitpick the details of how much international intervention there would have been if an incident like this happened in real life, but I tend not to get too hung up on such things. It's just a movie. I give them a great deal of latitude re: suspension of disbelief as long as the story is engaging. And in this case, I definitely found it engaging.
Agreed on the originality aspect. And to add, it was better written and had more detailed characters.
It's impossible to deny the visual feats Avatar reached (it was stunning watching it in 3D), but apart from special effects there isn't much else to talk about.
Maniarek.
Both.
So, I voted "neither".
So, I voted "neither".
District 9, no contest.
District 9: Alien Nation in Johannesburg.
Admittedly the fuel source that also happens to turn people into aliens is "original." Unfortunately, it's the kind of original that makes originality look bad. It makes mountains floating on a natural superconducting ore look like rocket science.
Admittedly the fuel source that also happens to turn people into aliens is "original." Unfortunately, it's the kind of original that makes originality look bad. It makes mountains floating on a natural superconducting ore look like rocket science.
A
Amaris
Guest
For me, most definitely Avatar, one of the primary reasons being the strong spiritual culture at work. Yes, the visuals were stunning, but that didn't hold my interest (although the visuals are rather spectacular) as much as the story did. District 9 was okay, but it didn't move me like Avatar.
Interestingly enough (or not, YMMV), I went in seeing District 9 with great anticipation, while I completely wrote off Avatar as nothing more than an eye candy showcase. As it currently stands, I much prefer Avatar over District 9.
Interestingly enough (or not, YMMV), I went in seeing District 9 with great anticipation, while I completely wrote off Avatar as nothing more than an eye candy showcase. As it currently stands, I much prefer Avatar over District 9.
