• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Avatar is stupid

I haven't seen it yet and am not interested in seeing it that much. The visuals alone are supposed to be great, but that's not getting me interested in sitting through the story.

It's nice that there's a SF movie lots of non-SF fans will go see, and that SF fans actually have a choice among SF movies to see or not-see, instead of "Oh, there's a SF movie! Finally! I must see it because it's SF!"
 
It's hardly SF. There's a space ship at the beginning. That's it. The rest is pure fantasy.
 
I'm not sure about that. The way the 'employees' behaved in Avatar was completely unbelievable - letting a homicidal maniac with a lot of firepower run everything just wouldn't happen - unless they had gone the military coup route. The Alien movies were a completely different setup since the alien(s) in question were not really into negotiating all that much.
Hmm... Recent American history would argue otherwise: invading a country with zilch justification. But I'm talking about the general universe the stories are set in, not the specifics of story.

It's hardly SF. There's a space ship at the beginning. That's it. The rest is pure fantasy.
It's far more SF than Star Wars. There was little to nothing in here that I hadn't already read about in SF novels ten to fifteen years ago. I suppose that's a big part of the reason that I wasn't awed by the film like many in the general audience seem to be.
 
Last edited:
How is "committing genocide to make a buck is bad" anti-capitalist?

The more and more I hear this movie is anti-capitalist and about white guilt and anti-military the more and more I realize people don't really watch movies, actively engaged...they just look at them.

And the more and more I see this film compared to Dances With Wolves, the more and more I realize that a) Dances With Wolves seems to be really fucking popular, and b) people really don't know shit about film or literature history.
 
Not all white men are bad and not all aboriginals are innocents. But that is essentially how they're painted in this movie. But you not supposed to think too much about that because you're supposed to be dazzled by the awesome eye candy in 3D.

The problem with Avatar is that so much of it is painted in simplistic broad strokes. It is anti-capitalist in the sense that this is a capitalism without laws, morals, ethics or restraint. It is anti-military in the sense that the military here is depicted as one dimensional thugs who are eager to kill and have zero interest in reaching a peaceful solution. An element of the film that underlines this is the human reluctance to look elsewhere for their precious mineral. Hello! you fly fucking light years to another planet but you can't shift your operations a few hundred kilometers?

From my perspective this was a dismal and depressing portrayal of future humanity.
 
I completely disagree with everything you just said, think when people say "you're not supposed to think too much" aren't doing what the film expects but are just choosing not to, and have made comments on how wrong everything you just said is elsewhere, and can't be bothered to type it anymore. *shrug*
 
I completely disagree with everything you just said, think when people say "you're not supposed to think too much" aren't doing what the film expects but are just choosing not to, and have made comments on how wrong everything you just said is elsewhere, and can't be bothered to type it anymore. *shrug*
:wtf:

This film isn't deep although it may try to pass itself off that way. There's a genuine story to tell here, but they chose not to flesh it out. They chose to make it all simplistic to make certain next to no one misunderstood the point.

Does the film make you think? Sure, if someone is near totally ignorant of how humanity has behaved in history, including recent history. Otherwise it won't make you think much because it's obvious and hamfisted as hell. It assumes that most of the audience won't understand nuance so they make certain there's no subtlety in the film.

And it's so obviously meant to play on white guilt.

I like the look of the film. But although a film can try to manipulate you into experiencing certain emotions and reactions in Avatar I could so easily see the strings being used.

Perhaps because I saw the film on dvd at home rather than in 3D at the theatre is why I focused more on the story and its mechanics. On the big screen I could see how many could be easily distracted by the larger-than-life visual spectacle.
 
By that time RDA will have moved on to capturing a xenomorph.

Just out of curiosity, has Cameron ever given any indication as whether Avatar takes place (unofficially) in the same universe as Aliens? The heavily corporatized spacefaring civilization of Earth and Syd Mead-inspired military/aerospace hardware design aesthetic are virtually identical.

SLR


I thought I heard "The Corporation" too.

The dialogue was pretty corny too.

"They're filthy savages with bows and arrows"

C'mon
 
By that time RDA will have moved on to capturing a xenomorph.

Just out of curiosity, has Cameron ever given any indication as whether Avatar takes place (unofficially) in the same universe as Aliens? The heavily corporatized spacefaring civilization of Earth and Syd Mead-inspired military/aerospace hardware design aesthetic are virtually identical.

SLR

It's certainly possible, I suppose, although the corporations in each movie are different (Weyland-Yutani vs. RDA). There's also the matter of Sigourney Weaver appearing in both films as different characters, although Bill Paxton also appeared as two different characters in Predator 2 and Aliens.
 
It was a pretty good movie. Some people get wrapped up in all the "messages" of the film. Well I just enjoyed it as a great action flick.
 
i saw something about magic flying rocks and just thought fuck that.
It was a cool but also definately WTF! moment. I can't get around how that could even be possible even in a lighter gravity.

I think the mineral they were interested in mining was why the rocks were floating.

It is anti-military in the sense that the military here is depicted as one dimensional thugs who are eager to kill and have zero interest in reaching a peaceful solution.

No the film is anti-civilian contractor. They made it clear by flat out saying it that the military looking guys on Pandora were private contractors, Sully even added the comment about how in the actual military that were fighting for freedom and other nobel goals, while the guys on Pandora aka the private contractors were only fighting because they were getting paid to do it.
 
Okay, Warped9, I'll rehash much of what I've said elsewhere.

Not all white men are bad and not all aboriginals are innocents. But that is essentially how they're painted in this movie. But you not supposed to think too much about that because you're supposed to be dazzled by the awesome eye candy in 3D.

Not all white men in this movie were bad. There is Jake, several other scientists, Sigourney Weaver's character, Michelle Rodriguez's character. As a matter of fact, if you count the number of main characters in the film, the majority of them were "white people," and they were good and the heroes of the film. And not all "aboriginals" portrayed in the movie were good. There was shown to be a lot of closed mindedness and jealousy. They could have gone further portraying some negatives to the "natives" perhaps, but there was some there. There were grey areas as well, such as with Giovanni Ribisi's character, not only a corporate douche bag, but also someone who helped out Jake et al with another chance to warn the Na'vi, and his obvious shock and sadness at the destruction of Hometree.

It is anti-capitalist in the sense that this is a capitalism without laws, morals, ethics or restraint.

No restraint? Giovanni Ribisi's character showed plenty of restraint. The fact that the scientist's were said to be doing what they were doing and being funded to do it all this time as a means to a diplomatic solution shows restraint. His character may have been a corporate dick, but he rebuffed Quaritch's demands several times, as well as allowing the science team some time, an additional hour, to try and save the Na'vi before the Hometree attack, done behind Quaritch's back. The entire point of the Avatar program shows that the company wasn't some two dimensional evil conglomerate bent on the annihilation of the Na'vi, but detractors of the film say they are. The company reached the end of its rope and it's patience and greed took over in their final siege, but there was plenty of restraint presented in the film. Why do you think they were funding the Avatar program in the first place? What did that have to do with their greed as far as the ore deposits were concerned?

It is anti-military in the sense that the military here is depicted as one dimensional thugs who are eager to kill and have zero interest in reaching a peaceful solution.

Personally, I think this argument is killed with the fact that they weren't military! They were a private mercenary security force. Case closed.

An element of the film that underlines this is the human reluctance to look elsewhere for their precious mineral. Hello! you fly fucking light years to another planet but you can't shift your operations a few hundred kilometers?

You didn't get the part about how the purest and best deposits of the ore were at Hometree? They had been mining elsewhere. But now they wanted what was there. And you don't think this is a realistic portrayal of what would happen? Look at what happened with the displacement of low income housing and the resultant homelessness due to the Winter Olympics in Vancouver. They couldn't just shift where they wanted their stadiums and villages a couple of kilometers? Avatar is a very timely depiction of social causes that are happening this very day...something the best of science fiction does.
 
They made it clear by flat out saying it that the military looking guys on Pandora were private contractors, Sully even added the comment about how in the actual military that were fighting for freedom and other nobel goals, while the guys on Pandora aka the private contractors were only fighting because they were getting paid to do it.

they weren't military! They were a private mercenary security force.


So Colonel Badass is not really a colonel, then?
 
What do you mean by "not really?" I'm sure a private force could create a command structure based on a classic military paradigm, and rank their chain of command in the same way. And maybe he was when and if he was in the actual military. The main point, however, is that he's not in that military in this film.
 
They look and act like military so who in the audience is going to make the distinction? Show us some actual military forces or personnel in the film and then the counter argument is valid. Again there's no complexity, no real thought put into it. It's all done with a hammer.

Inevitably it comes down to "might makes right" and "we want it so that's sufficient justification for whatever we need to do to get it."
 
They look and act like military so who in the audience is going to make the distinction?

Umm...how about the people who heard the main character's narration at the very beginning of the film say they were mercenaries, guns for hire, there for the money because the economy on earth was in the shitter? You say the film beats you with a hammer, but then you don't even get the most basic premises it puts forth. :rolleyes:
 
I had no interest in seeing this movie until this thread. Now I'm curious to see the supposed "anti-capitalist" message.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top