Attack of the Clones gets the RLM tratment at last!

[doubleohfive]

Do the words "poorly written" carry any meaning with you?

RLM makes a fabulous point in this review about marriage in the Star Wars universe, and (I think) rightly pins it on Lucas himself. That alone explains much of the problem with Attack of the Clones.

(And again I ask -- WHO THE HELL ARE THE CLONES ATTACKING IN THIS PICTURE?)

 

[T'Baio]

Attack Of The Clones has its flaws, but...they're attacking the Trade Federation.

 

[Gaith]

I've been saying that for however many years. Wondering how Anikan's acting like a spoiled brat, whining, acting like a creepy stalker and murdering women and children scored him Padme.

I've always assumed he used some Dark Side powers to help her like him.

Attack Of The Clones has its flaws, but...they're attacking the Trade Federation.

Yup. Attack of the Good Guys, this title basically is.

 

[T'Baio]

Is there a problem with the title being Attack of the "Good Guys?"

 

[Gaith]

Yes. "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack." I know they're not Jedi, but still. Along with Yoda making the first move against Dooku, it goes against the peaceful message of the Jedi/OT Yoda. "Defense of the Clones" or "Attack of the Droids" would have been much more apt in-context titles.

 

[T'Baio]

The Jedi were never meant to be perfect at this point of the story, though. They're being eroded. Their morality and beliefs are being tested. They're being forced into corners they don't want to be in. Yoda himself talks about how they're becoming arrogant, thinking they can police the galaxy. These are the things they're fighting through the whole story.

And that was the great flip of the concept as people expected it. When Obi Wan talked of the Clone Wars in Star Wars, the assumption was that clones would attack the Republic, defeat it, and they were the Empire. No one ever thought the Republic would become the Empire. Lucas turned everything on it's head, and attempted to surprise the audience. And if you look at Lucas' whole idea of duality in the series, in the OT the Empire attacks in the 2nd act, in the PT the Republic does.

I thought all this was one of the more well done things in the PT.

 

[USS Mariner]

Here's a direct link to a full playlist of the whole thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBh...0EAF7E101&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1

 

[JacksonArcher]

The Jedi were never meant to be perfect at this point of the story, though. They're being eroded. Their morality and beliefs are being tested. They're being forced into corners they don't want to be in. Yoda himself talks about how they're becoming arrogant, thinking they can police the galaxy. These are the things they're fighting through the whole story.

And that was the great flip of the concept as people expected it. When Obi Wan talked of the Clone Wars in Star Wars, the assumption was that clones would attack the Republic, defeat it, and they were the Empire. No one ever thought the Republic would become the Empire. Lucas turned everything on it's head, and attempted to surprise the audience. And if you look at Lucas' whole idea of duality in the series, in the OT the Empire attacks in the 2nd act, in the PT the Republic does.

I thought all this was one of the more well done things in the PT.

Well, plus, I mean, at the point in the story when the Clones do attack, led by Yoda, the Trade Federation pretty much has the Jedi's surrounded and cornered. You could argue that maybe it was questionable for them to attack Dooku in the first place -- Hey, though, they were Separatists -- but at that point in the story what would you have the Clones/Yoda do? Just allow for Mace, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme and the others to be slaughtered?

 

[Kegg]

And that was the great flip of the concept as people expected it. When Obi Wan talked of the Clone Wars in Star Wars, the assumption was that clones would attack the Republic, defeat it, and they were the Empire.

Not in my case. I thought the implication was always pretty clear that the Republic became the Empire, hell, there's even lines of dialogue hinting at that result (abolishing the Senate meaning the last bit of the Republic has gone away). It was all very obviously Roman Republic to Roman Empire thing. I think the Alan Dean Foster novelization of the movie also has that in there, although the Emperor was a President, rather than a Chancellor. Details, details (Angela Merkel, Barack Obama, there's a difference?)

Now as to what the Clone Wars were? Yeah, people did assume it was the Republic versus the Clones, as much as I can remember.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

The problems with the PT were less in terms of conceptualization and more in terms of execution. Everything that GL tried to do with the prequels -- from the clones to Palpatine to Anakin makes a bit of sense on a very general level. I like the issue of the Separatists and how Palpatine makes his grab for power and how he ultimately tempts Anakin. By all accounts, Dooku is a thoroughly intriguing character. Maybe separating Obi-Wan into the dual characters of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon was questionable. Having Anakin so young in TPM is objectionable. But the real issue is in how it all plays out on screen -- which is to say, not nearly as well as it could have, had there been a more collaborative approach (a-la Empire Strikes Back).

 

[doubleohfive]

The Jedi were never meant to be perfect at this point of the story, though. They're being eroded. Their morality and beliefs are being tested. They're being forced into corners they don't want to be in. Yoda himself talks about how they're becoming arrogant, thinking they can police the galaxy. These are the things they're fighting through the whole story.

And that was the great flip of the concept as people expected it. When Obi Wan talked of the Clone Wars in Star Wars, the assumption was that clones would attack the Republic, defeat it, and they were the Empire. No one ever thought the Republic would become the Empire. Lucas turned everything on it's head, and attempted to surprise the audience. And if you look at Lucas' whole idea of duality in the series, in the OT the Empire attacks in the 2nd act, in the PT the Republic does.

I thought all this was one of the more well done things in the PT.

"Wrong! Wrong, you asshole, wrong!"

There was no "attack" at all. To me --and I may be wrong, but I'm going off my own lifelong perception of the meaning of the word-- "attack" suggests the beginning of hostilities.

The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

You would never say "The US Army attacked the Japanese forces at Pearl Harbor" because they didn't. They defended themselves against the sneak attack.

Obi-Wan, Padme and Anakin were stuck in Gladiator, about to be scrunched.

They broke free and fought off the beasties.

The bugs showed up.

The Jedi showed up.

The bugs and the Jedi fought.

THEN the clones showed up with Yoda and helped defend the Jedi.

At no point in this godforsaken pile of cinematic crap do the clones attack anyone or anything.

 

[JRS]

I've been saying that for however many years. Wondering how Anikan's acting like a spoiled brat, whining, acting like a creepy stalker and murdering women and children scored him Padme.

Good point
Though, what do we really know about Padmes charather anyway, other than she was a queen and now is a senator? Nothing..because shes really as shallow as the other characters.
Seems that Lucas really didint read, or forgot, the advices of how to create compelling characters, when he wrote the newer films. Advices that are included in any good book about fiction writing.
There would be some advices of how to write a good story, also.
Lets face it. The three orginal SW films are excellent scifi/adventure films with interesting characters and fun action.
They are also better because they feel much more real, in almost any way possible, compared to the CGI cartoony newer ones.
Sometimes in films, less is simply more.
Lucas had less money and less technology to make the orginal three..thus he had to try harder and be more creative..and of course he did not direct the Empire, that is the best SW film ever.
It seems that the special effects, that give filmmakers power to do anything they want, actually sometimes stupidfy filmmakers.
(Im scared, that the new 3D-movie boom will actually make stupid plotless CGI films even more popular and more common.)

Peter Jackson managed to balance story and special effects quite well in LOTR..and even the characters had some depth. This just as an exsample that special effects dont ruin the movies, if every other basic aspect of filmmaking from story writing to casting, is done well

 

[T'Baio]

"Wrong! Wrong, you asshole, wrong!"

So, flaming is okay now if we just quote it from something?

Cool, I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Broccoli]

I dunno. Attack of the Clones is no more a stupid title than The Empire Strikes Back yet no one ever complains about that title.

 

[doubleohfive]

Oh for crying out loud!

See the quotation marks? I was quoting Red Letter Media guy, from the Star Trek Nemesis review. The scene from (I think) part 3 when Jonathan Frakes is being interviewed:

FRAKES: I think the audience wants Star Trek to be an action movie...
RED LETTER MEDIA GUY: Wrong! Wrong you asshole, wrong!

It was a facetious way of disagreeing with your assessment, while at the same time referencing a very funny moment of one of the reviews done by the same guy.

It's funny. If you want to view it as flaming, trolling, whatever, that's your damage. It was a joke, Besides, given the supreme lack of consideration you gave to the rest of my assessment (I'm utterly guffawed by your counter-argument) maybe you should just click the 'notify mod' button rather than wet your pants over it publicly?

Given your lack of sensitivity and poor sense of humor, one would think you had the stones to take as much as you give.

EDIT: FYI Here's the link to the video. It's in the first thirty seconds. Incidentally, he makes a fabulous point about the difference in quality between the action in Nemesis versus the TNG episode "Power Play"

http://www.youtube.com/user/redlettermedia?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/26/5DT7sSp-3_I

 

[T'Baio]

doubleohfive, you used to be such a nice guy. How come you're all up in arms lately?

 

[doubleohfive]

You're right ... I'm totally overreacting. My apologies.

 

[T'Baio]

It's cool. You just seem to be really aggressive lately. No worries.

Anyway, while the battle of Geonosis was the beginning of the war, it sure seemed to me like the Clones were getting ready to attack something (of course, we know it's the Trade Federation) at the end of the film, when all those ships were taking off filled with clones, to the drone of The Imperial March. They're the ones who seemed to make it a full scale thing.

"Begun...the clone war...has."

 

[Kegg]

The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

You would never say "The US Army attacked the Japanese forces at Pearl Harbor" because they didn't. They defended themselves against the sneak attack.

However there is such a thing as a counter-attack. And the arrival of the Clones on Geonosis definitely constituted an attack. The Clones went on the offensive and assaulted an enemy planet, that's sort of what attacking is even by your definition.

 

[Gaith]

I dunno. Attack of the Clones is no more a stupid title than The Empire Strikes Back yet no one ever complains about that title.

That's because one means "Attack of the Good Guys" and the other means "The Bad Guys Counter-attack". One of those titles is ridiculous.

"Rise of the Clones", for instance, would be a lot better.