gturner, I think you raise a lot of points worth thinking about, there. Thanks for reposting your comment.
At least 12 killed, 50 injured at midnight showing of Batman movie
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We are talking about the capacity of a magazine, and the fact that he bought 6,000 or 7,000 rounds of ammunition because it's excessive. To put this into comparison, the M61 Vulcan fires 6,000 rounds per minute. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan) This is a military issued cannon used on fixed-wing aircraft. Why would a civilian need to have this much ammunition?
I am in disbelief when I hear gun advocates state you need an AR-15 to kill a deer.
For thousands of years, people have used bow and arrow, the atlatl, and the spear. These require skill and patience. Are we that impatient with the sport of hunting that we need to employ an assault rifle? This isn't skill; this is overkill.
I am thankful that he was inexperienced. He didn't purchase night vision goggles, he didn't know that you don't employ a smoke screen unless you want to cover your tracks, and he didn't know that you shoot at the people in the front, then move your direction of fire to the rear.
I think the film will be always associated with this event. I have heard one person state today that when he was watching the film, when he got to the 20 minute mark, he reflected, was this what the people were seeing before the shooting and what they were feeling?
As for blaming movie and video game violence, what was influencing people in the days before one, or either media, existed? The first media-covered mass shooting in our country's history was in 1949. Known as the Walk of Death, Howard Unruh killed 13 people in Camden, New Jersey. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and spent the rest of his life in the New Jersey Hospital for the Insane. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh) There were no video games in the late 1940's.
Let's go further back to a time when films were a rarity. In 1893, Kumartoro Kido and Yagaro Tani killed 11 people in Japan in an event known as the KawachiJuningiri. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumatarō_Kido_and_Yagorō_Tani)
The problem in the most recent shootings, especially in this country, is that people have access to weapons which serve one purpose - the annihilation of human life. Guns were invented to destroy human life, then were later repurposed for hunting. Many of these shooters shouldn't have been granted permission to buy these weapons; however, people shout this is an infringement of their Second Amendment rights, and any attempt by the government to limit access of these weapons to the responsible parties is decried as an overstep of the government. When the Second Amendment was ratified in 1791, the most powerful weapon was a single-shot rifle. Now, we have weapons that are far more powerful, and some of these weapons are landing in the wrong hands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
I am in disbelief when I hear gun advocates state you need an AR-15 to kill a deer.
For thousands of years, people have used bow and arrow, the atlatl, and the spear. These require skill and patience. Are we that impatient with the sport of hunting that we need to employ an assault rifle? This isn't skill; this is overkill.I am thankful that he was inexperienced. He didn't purchase night vision goggles, he didn't know that you don't employ a smoke screen unless you want to cover your tracks, and he didn't know that you shoot at the people in the front, then move your direction of fire to the rear.
I think the film will be always associated with this event. I have heard one person state today that when he was watching the film, when he got to the 20 minute mark, he reflected, was this what the people were seeing before the shooting and what they were feeling?
As for blaming movie and video game violence, what was influencing people in the days before one, or either media, existed? The first media-covered mass shooting in our country's history was in 1949. Known as the Walk of Death, Howard Unruh killed 13 people in Camden, New Jersey. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, and spent the rest of his life in the New Jersey Hospital for the Insane. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh) There were no video games in the late 1940's.
Let's go further back to a time when films were a rarity. In 1893, Kumartoro Kido and Yagaro Tani killed 11 people in Japan in an event known as the KawachiJuningiri. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumatarō_Kido_and_Yagorō_Tani)
The problem in the most recent shootings, especially in this country, is that people have access to weapons which serve one purpose - the annihilation of human life. Guns were invented to destroy human life, then were later repurposed for hunting. Many of these shooters shouldn't have been granted permission to buy these weapons; however, people shout this is an infringement of their Second Amendment rights, and any attempt by the government to limit access of these weapons to the responsible parties is decried as an overstep of the government. When the Second Amendment was ratified in 1791, the most powerful weapon was a single-shot rifle. Now, we have weapons that are far more powerful, and some of these weapons are landing in the wrong hands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
The reason 6000 rounds isn't excessive is that people use a lot of ammunition when they practice, a hundred or two a day with a pistol, a hundred or so with a rifle. Instead of paying retail at a gunstore every week, many buy in case quantities. I bought a 1,300 round case of 7.62x39 because it was cheap, but it didn't last me very long.
Since Obama was elected people have also been buying in bulk and hoarding, creating a severe supply shortage. A year or so ago some gun stores were even having to ration it. Ammunition plants have been operating 24/7 trying to keep up with demand, which is probably approaching 10 billion rounds a year. That's billion with a 'b'. The reason everyone is filling their garages with ammunition is that they're all afraid Obama will come up with some excuse to limit it, regulate it, or tax it to death. So this particular shooter's purchases weren't even unusual in the current market, especially considering that many people go in together on a bulk purchase to get a better price break.
Paranoia about the fallout from this shooting will probably cause even more ammunition hoarding, driving sales up yet again. And how many bullets did he actually need to carry out this mayhem, two boxes?
Limiting magazine capacity won't affect anything either, in part because everyone already stocked up on dozens of high capacity magazines per gun, due to the last capacity ban they tried, and the military doesn't use super-high capacity magazines because they're just not worth using. The Marines are even abandoning the SAW (a full machinegun) for a HK version of the M-16, finding that the hit rates per minute are much higher with the rifle than the machine gun.
And of course, this shooter's death toll disappears into the roundoff error Operation Fast and Furious, which has killed many hundreds of innocent people, if not thousands.
ETA: CNN story on the ammo crunch from 2009.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/04/ammo.shortage/index.html
Since Obama was elected people have also been buying in bulk and hoarding, creating a severe supply shortage. A year or so ago some gun stores were even having to ration it. Ammunition plants have been operating 24/7 trying to keep up with demand, which is probably approaching 10 billion rounds a year. That's billion with a 'b'. The reason everyone is filling their garages with ammunition is that they're all afraid Obama will come up with some excuse to limit it, regulate it, or tax it to death. So this particular shooter's purchases weren't even unusual in the current market, especially considering that many people go in together on a bulk purchase to get a better price break.
Paranoia about the fallout from this shooting will probably cause even more ammunition hoarding, driving sales up yet again. And how many bullets did he actually need to carry out this mayhem, two boxes?
Limiting magazine capacity won't affect anything either, in part because everyone already stocked up on dozens of high capacity magazines per gun, due to the last capacity ban they tried, and the military doesn't use super-high capacity magazines because they're just not worth using. The Marines are even abandoning the SAW (a full machinegun) for a HK version of the M-16, finding that the hit rates per minute are much higher with the rifle than the machine gun.
And of course, this shooter's death toll disappears into the roundoff error Operation Fast and Furious, which has killed many hundreds of innocent people, if not thousands.
ETA: CNN story on the ammo crunch from 2009.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/05/04/ammo.shortage/index.html
The 2nd amendment isn't about deer. It's about defending your home and your country in times of dire emergency.
Also "need" doesn't necessarily enter into the equation. Since the Bill of Rights is about, ya know, rights. If I want to buy 6,000 rounds in bulk so I have enough ammo to get thru a season of weekly practice for competition shooting, I have that right.
I'm in disbelief when I hear sports car advocates state you need a Porsche Carrera to commute to work. You're never going to go over 70MPH.
I'm in disbelief when expensive watch advocates state you need a $5000 Rolex to tell what time it is.
I'm in disbelief when an alcohol advocate states you need to drink $500-a-bottle champagne to get a buzz.
Etc., etc., etc....
I second that - very well written and thoughtful.
He still would have only gotten 10 rounds off before it jammed. It just would have jammed quicker. I don't know about AR-15 drums, but all other drums I've seen have a wind-up spring, like a clock. It almost sounds to me like he forgot to wind it up all the way, either from lack of preparation or the adrenaline flowing from the melee, which would certainly make it mis-feed.
^^^ QFT. I personally don't NEED an AR-15 - mostly because I think they're crap. Always have, always will. Kalishnikov or Simonov are always the way to go. I'm a sucker for peasant weapons anyway. If it can't feed a fence post, you might as well grow flowers out the muzzle.
Every gun law in the world wouldn't have stopped this guy. If he had the wherewithal to construct the ordnance they found in his apartment, he would have used that to blow up the theater if firearms weren't readily available, causing a potentially greater body count. It could be argued that, due to this fact, the LACK of gun laws saved lives.
No, delusional. They were operating under a delusion which was not borne out in reality.
But, you know, Obama could be reelected, which means there's still a chance the fictive fantasy world of the gun nuts will be validated.
Just believe hard enough, and it'll all come true!
If you're going to force me to hold your hand and walk you through the logic, I can do that.
Democratic presidents have been elected before, and this never happened.
A black president gets elected, and this happens.
Any questions?
I think I already said that.
Just because some utilize their 2'nd ammendment rights, doesn't make them gun nuts. Maybe they reacted a bit overboard, I'll concede that.
Set Harth said:
It's not because of the man's race, but because of his policies. Would you like me to look those up for you? I believe you're capable, aren't you?
Your condescending responses are not appreciated, so you've put me on the defensive for asking a simple question. I don't know you, your politics, nor can I read your mind. Asking you to explain your statement was necessary. got your number now though.
No, I did.Set Harth said:
Yeah. I got one.
How do you explain how the EXACT same thing happened prior to Bill Clinton's 1994 Assault Weapons and Foreign Imports Bans, as well as the Brady Law, with people hurriedly buying high-cap magazines, cases of ammo, aftermarket folding stocks, rifles w/ threaded muzzles and bayonet lugs, etc.? I remember those days WAY too clearly.
Oh, wait. That's right...I forgot. Bill Clinton was the First Black President.
Maybe it is racism.
And...scene.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31298006/detail.html
Pretty much inevitable that this would happen I think. Still crazy to see it in writing.
Maybe it is racism.
And...scene.
^ Racist.
Gun sales have jumped 41% since the shooting. That's huge.
One of the reasons gun owners worry about Obama is his statement to Sarah Brady that he was working on gun control under the radar, which is probably closely related to the reason Eric Holder was cited with contempt of Congress over Fast & Furious, a program which killed lots and lots of people and made no sense at all as a law-enforcement action, but did make sense as a way to push for more gun control by getting the border murder rate to skyrocket. And sure enough the BATFE used the illegal gun sales they mandated as an excuse to try and crack down gun dealers in the Southwest.
And now it turns out that the federal government paid for the guns used in the Aurora shooting via a $26,000 NIH grant to the shooter - which he spent on guns so he could conduct his wacko social experiment.
Yeah, good luck with all of that. And suing TDKR? Really?!
Yeah, can I have some of the shit you're smoking?
No kidding. I could maybe see "racism" if this was 2008 and Obama had just been elected. Black President, oh no! But the dude has been in office for 4 years.
After having killed that 6 year old girl and Navy serviceman along with all the others, I damn sure hope so. Does anyone know if Colorado maintains a death penalty on their books?
Actually, IIRC, it happened back then too. It just wasn't as widely publicized. Even so, I still don't buy the racism card. It's too easy and convenient a crutch for apologists of this administration to use for attacks against criticism on failed policy. Don't like what he does? Racism! Don't like diagonal stripes on his necktie? RACISM!
Feh!
Colorado has three people on death row, all for murders in Aurora, but has only executed one person since the 1970's. In this case they might be more inclined to use the death penalty because of the large number of people who were killed, and because he's the Joker, and the Joker was always busting out of prison and inflicting more mayhem.
I was just looking at Holmes' sales receipt for some of his tactical gear. It's quite possible that he wasn't wearing body armor, as the urban-assault tactical vest he bought is just a nylon vest with magazine pockets.
Re: the lawsuit...what hooey specifically the part about the movie itself. Duh.
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