Spoilers Arrow - Season 4
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Mortals do not become angels, but demons are twisted angels or mortals.
Unexplained immortality would do in a pinch, if not that he's a walking though walls ghost.
Constantine 3000.
Unexplained immortality would do in a pinch, if not that he's a walking though walls ghost.
Constantine 3000.
I've read some speculation that the reason this is a supposedly one time only deal is because WB is planning on using the character in the Justice League Dark movie.
They're using other characters simultaneously in films and on TV, I don't see why Constantine should be different.
So the Justice League Dark Movie will be in the Man of Steel-Verse?
It's not unprecedented. They can't use Deadshot on Arrow any more because of the Suicide Squad movie.
Ah, so that's why they killed him off.
"Lady Cop"? Oy, what a title. And what an obscure character.
Sometimes I wonder if comics-based shows these days are trying too hard to rely on existing comics continuity. It used to be that most of the guest characters who appeared in superhero shows were original. The Superman radio show created new characters who became iconic in their own right -- Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Inspector Henderson -- and relied entirely on original villains. Most superhero TV adaptations for decades used entirely original villains; even the Adam West Batman used only nine pre-existing comics characters (and reinvented one of them, a one-shot baddie named Mr. Zero, into Mr. Freeze) and created a couple of dozen new villains, as well as original supporting characters like Chief O'Hara, Warden Crichton, and Mayor Linseed. Batman: TAS used plenty of comics characters, but also created new ones like Harley Quinn, Montoya, Phantasm in the movie, etc., while Superman: TAS gave us Mercy Graves and Livewire. Sure, the original bad guys used in shows like the '50s Superman and the '70s Wonder Woman and Spider-Man were forgettable, but sometimes, superhero shows created original characters that became valuable additions to the mythos. We still have that with Agents of SHIELD (though it remains to be seen whether its new characters who've been added to the comics will have any real longevity), but so many other shows are relying almost entirely on pre-existing characters, even drawing on obscure names like -- egad -- Lady Cop and applying them to characters who might as well be original. Gotham's entire schtick, practically, is showing the "origins" of comics characters, to the detriment of its own storytelling. So I wonder if this trope is being overused.
Sometimes I wonder if comics-based shows these days are trying too hard to rely on existing comics continuity. It used to be that most of the guest characters who appeared in superhero shows were original. The Superman radio show created new characters who became iconic in their own right -- Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Inspector Henderson -- and relied entirely on original villains. Most superhero TV adaptations for decades used entirely original villains; even the Adam West Batman used only nine pre-existing comics characters (and reinvented one of them, a one-shot baddie named Mr. Zero, into Mr. Freeze) and created a couple of dozen new villains, as well as original supporting characters like Chief O'Hara, Warden Crichton, and Mayor Linseed. Batman: TAS used plenty of comics characters, but also created new ones like Harley Quinn, Montoya, Phantasm in the movie, etc., while Superman: TAS gave us Mercy Graves and Livewire. Sure, the original bad guys used in shows like the '50s Superman and the '70s Wonder Woman and Spider-Man were forgettable, but sometimes, superhero shows created original characters that became valuable additions to the mythos. We still have that with Agents of SHIELD (though it remains to be seen whether its new characters who've been added to the comics will have any real longevity), but so many other shows are relying almost entirely on pre-existing characters, even drawing on obscure names like -- egad -- Lady Cop and applying them to characters who might as well be original. Gotham's entire schtick, practically, is showing the "origins" of comics characters, to the detriment of its own storytelling. So I wonder if this trope is being overused.
Eh, I'm all for using comic characters. Having them use original names doesn't really bring anything, and its a nice little reference for comics fans, even if the characters are mostly or completely different then the comic version (like Felicity, Cisco, Caitlyn,etc). Plus, especially for villains but even for other characters, there are so many interesting DC characters never seen on screen I'd prefer they went with them, and if some of the more obscure characters are mostly just "in-name-only" characters, that's ok. They have so much to work with, and its not like DC needs more new characters.
Chris's point was a little different from that - that successful established characters that people consider seminal in the comics were created in other media.
your approach would mean we would never see Harley Quinn for example.
Exactly. If the adaptations fixate too much on showing off the depth of their knowledge of comics continuity, might that not short-circuit the creation of new characters with the potential to become just as iconic as Jimmy Olsen or Harley Quinn or Phil Coulson? Heck, I thought Gotham's one major original character, Fish Mooney, had more potential than adapted characters like the Dollmaker or the Electrocutioner or whoever.
Granted, Arrow's Felicity Smoak is essentially an original breakout character in her own right; she shares the name of an established comics character and works in the same field, but is a completely new character in other respects, and the comics' Felicity has since been reinvented to resemble the show's character. So that's essentially a Jimmy/Harley/Coulson situation despite the use of an established character name. But then, why even bother to use the established name? I think the only reason for that is legal, so that Warner Bros. and DC Entertainment don't have to pay royalties to the creators of a new character, since they can claim it's just a derivative version of a character they already own. Gerry Conway wrote a revealing post about this a while back, about how DCE engages in convoluted legal rationalizations to avoid compensating creators for their characters.
I hope this isn't a one-time thing, then never again (at first I thought it meant that they had one episode planned so far). And if it is, I hope they can use Constantine's presence as a jumping off point for other characters in his world to show up, like Zatanna and Dr. Fate. They could even bring back Liv from the pilot.
Even if it ends up being a one-off, folding Constantine into the arrowverse (still going with that because it's what's caught on) is still pretty impressive. Gotta echo that.
Yeah, I get what you mean. Still, as much as I love Flash, the people working there aren't exactly Paul Dini or Bruce Timm. I think they can adapt DC heroes/villains very well, sometimes amazingly well. I don't think we'll be seeing the next Harley Quinn from them, and I don't want to take screen time away from villains like Captain Cold to have their own "brand new" villain waste time on Flash.
I suppose if they have to do it, then on Arrow it might work. Of course, I really only say that because Arrow sucked last season and I'm much more of a Flash fan, so Arrow might as well get dragged down with lame new villains that no one remembers. Flash has a bunch of amazing villains we haven't seen, it would be almost a crime to waste time on made up, show only villains.
Another reason not to want new characters on the shows. At this point, felicity's barely relevant comic connection is the only thing about her that isn't irritating, with a new name she'd have no redeeming features whatsoever
She'd just be Oliver's love interest who cries and complains at the drop of a hat. At least her name is an interesting bit of trivia by itself.
Diggle is a creation of the show who later appeared in the comics. A lot of people wanted him to turn out to be John Stewart, and the actor would have been perfect for the part, but he's just John Diggle.
You just said one of the things I was thinking better than I ever could
There have been some great characters created on DC TV shows, but there has also been A LOT of junk.
Confirmation that they are in fact retroactively linking NBC's Constantine to the "Flarrow"-verse:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/12/arrow-constantine-will-help-bring-sara-lance-back?%20hub%20page%20(front%20page)&utm_content=3
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