Arrow - Season 3

[kirk55555]

So,

Spoiler: Arrow

Oliver gives in to brainwashing faster that I would have expected humanly possible. Seriously, I haven't seen anyone get mentally dominated this quickly or lamely, especially the supposed hero of the story.

He then tries to kill his friends and is going to go along with Ra's plan to force a woman (who we know isn't willing) into marrying him. He'll also probably try to kill all of Starling City now, I guess. But, knowing this show, Felicity will probably end up saving the day by bringing Oliver back to his senses with the power of love

There was also flashback stuff, but every single flashback in arrow this season has been painfully bad, so I've been mostly just ignoring it for the last few episodes.

It really feels like the writers just don't care anymore. Its like they realized that Arrow fulfilled its purpose by giving the world an awesome superhero show (The Flash), so now they've just kind of given up and are just writing whatever stupid thing comes to mind first. Its weird how far Arrow has fallen. The only good episode this season was the Flash team up. Maybe Season 4 will be better. It almost certainly can't be worse than this season.

 

[sojourner]

I dunno, lately the show just seems a little too self involved. I actually find myself hoping for a villain of the week. Getting tired of all the Ras centered stuff.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I find myself caring less and less about the flashbacks. The first two seasons were interesting because they established Ollie's character. The Hong Kong flashbacks are sort of pointless; they're more like fillers.

 

[Gryffindorian]

So,

Spoiler: Arrow

Oliver gives in to brainwashing faster that I would have expected humanly possible. Seriously, I haven't seen anyone get mentally dominated this quickly or lamely, especially the supposed hero of the story.

He then tries to kill his friends and is going to go along with Ra's plan to force a woman (who we know isn't willing) into marrying him. He'll also probably try to kill all of Starling City now, I guess. But, knowing this show, Felicity will probably end up saving the day by bringing Oliver back to his senses with the power of love

There was also flashback stuff, but every single flashback in arrow this season has been painfully bad, so I've been mostly just ignoring it for the last few episodes.

I was thinking of that too, but wasn't there a mention of an herbal drug that was supposed to wipe out Oliver's conscience at the beginning?

On the other hand, I wonder if Oliver is just playing along. Was he really going to stab Diggle, or for that matter, Nyssa, or was just pretending?

 

[JanewayRulz!]

So,

Spoiler: Arrow

Oliver gives in to brainwashing faster that I would have expected humanly possible. Seriously, I haven't seen anyone get mentally dominated this quickly or lamely, especially the supposed hero of the story.

He then tries to kill his friends and is going to go along with Ra's plan to force a woman (who we know isn't willing) into marrying him. He'll also probably try to kill all of Starling City now, I guess. But, knowing this show, Felicity will probably end up saving the day by bringing Oliver back to his senses with the power of love

There was also flashback stuff, but every single flashback in arrow this season has been painfully bad, so I've been mostly just ignoring it for the last few episodes.

I was thinking of that too, but wasn't there a mention of an herbal drug that was supposed to wipe out Oliver's conscience at the beginning?

On the other hand, I wonder if Oliver is just playing along. Was he really going to stab Diggle, or for that matter, Nyssa, or was just pretending?

Well, he really killed that guy we all thought was John Diggle.

As for the Flashbacks, now that we see the league has the bioweapon that killed all those people in Hong Kong including his mentor's child, hopefully that will pull him from his Ra's stupor. That, or a wedding night with a very pissed off former "heir to the demon".

 

[sojourner]

Would be great if they did a riff on the old Moonlighting "Taming of the Shrew" episode.

 

[Guy Gardener]

My first thought, was that a lot of what's been going on has been an Argus mission to recover Alpha Omega.

My second thought is that when Oliver was a billionaire he would have inoculated as much of the city and the planet as possible, by contaminating water supplies, and air spraying, although if he really wanted to get the cure to the most needed places, he would have infected the worlds supply of rats with the vaccine.

Although, if the kid in the past is dying, does the vaccine work?

 

[CorporalClegg]

On the other hand, I wonder if Oliver is just playing along. Was he really going to stab Diggle, or for that matter, Nyssa, or was just pretending?

I'm thinking the whole thing is going to turn out to be one giant ruse Ollie, Tatsu, and Maseo put in play back at the cabin to get the alpha/omega. Heck, they may have put it in motion back in Hong Kong. I'm thinking the flashbacks will climax with Akio dying and the League taking the alpha from Shrieve's guys, which is why Maseo goes to the League in the first place.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Although, if the kid in the past is dying, does the vaccine work?

They probably dosed him wrong. We know the vaccine works since Ollie and the parents survived.

Giving it to the rats only helps if the rats bite everyone.

I'd rather get a shot.

I wasn't sure why Ra's felt Nyssa had betrayed him.

Was it simply her leaving the League when he offered the Demon's mantle to Ollie, or was it because Nyssa stole the virus when she left?

If it was stealing the virus, why did Ra's let her sit in Starling City for 3 weeks with it? Wasn't he afraid she might turn it over to the "authorities", or more likely use it to kill her rival?

ETA:

Maybe we are ALL wrong.

Maybe it isn't about the virus or Ollie making the better Assassin.

Maybe it has been all about Nyssa and Sara all along.

Ra's didn't approve of Sara, so he manipulated Malcolm into manipulating Thea into killing her.

That didn't work since Nyssa kept pining after Sara, so he decided to force the issue by providing her with a suitably appropriate suitor.

There is precedence for such an outrageous strategy, if we look to the billionaire class in China.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...o-marries-my-lesbian-daughter-gigi-chao-upset

1B Hong Kong = 120 M US (at the time, its now 129M)

http://www.ibtimes.com/who-cecil-ch...lion-man-who-marries-lesbian-daughter-1547247

It would explain why he never offered to use the Lazarus pit on Sara.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The black plague that took out a third of Europe a couple times, was spread by the flea's living on rats.

Rats did the travelling, fleas did the biting.

But this was just another awful joke in along line of awful jokes, so never mind.

Sorry.

Over 75,000 human beings have signed an online petition because of something that happened on Greys anatomy last week.

Shhhh!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Over 75,000 human beings have signed an online petition because of something that happened on Greys anatomy last week.

Shhhh!

Must be disgruntled Xena and Firefly fans who just can't "take it" anymore when their favs get killed off.

 

[Christopher]

I get the sense that they're setting up the H.I.V.E. and Damien Darhk as the big bads for season 4.

Meanwhile, I hope they aren't planning to write out Thea along with Roy. The hooded-archer thing is a surprisingly good look for her.

Main nitpick... that Laurel could keep up with the league's henchmen as long as she did in that final fight, despite showing us early on that a simple mugger could out maneuver her.

She was more motivated and focused. The thing with the mugger wasn't about lack of skill, but lack of concentration.

Funniest moment for me... was Nyssa's face when her dad, the demon, betrothed her to the next demon.

There's nothing funny about a father ordering his own daughter to be raped. That's what a forced marriage is (and Ra's left no doubt that he intends her to produce an heir). And it's doubly a violation given that Nyssa's a lesbian. Even with all the murder and brainwashing, this is perhaps the most unforgivably cruel thing Ra's has done, since it's so personal.

I wasn't sure why Ra's felt Nyssa had betrayed him.

...

Maybe it has been all about Nyssa and Sara all along.

That's certainly the root of their conflict. Ra's didn't approve of Nyssa's same-sex relationship, so he rejected her as his heir, and that led to their falling out.

And didn't she help Team Arrow a few weeks back, in an effort to foil Ra's's plans to make Oliver his heir? That would certainly be a betrayal in Ra's's eyes. (Ahh, too many apostrophes!!)

 

[Guy Gardener]

A city of only men which she is never allowed to leave, unless she's on the job?

Sounds like a pretty shitty place to be a lesbian.



Maybe there are women, maybe we've seen women there. I really don't pay a lot of attention. Maybe it is a city with 10s of thousands of men women and children, and not a bootcamp/palace with nothing but men playing with swords, but here's the thing, I'm pretty sure that other than Nyssa and Sarah that we have not seen other woman in the League as foot soldiers.

Maybe the women are trained in a different city?

Sexist?

Although, baring sexism, it would be types of warfare/assassination that would be taught in each city, and if Nanda Parabat is where they teach the big burly folks to be bigger and burlier, it makes sense that the smaller slighter warriors/assassins would be taught other methods by other teachers in other locals.

Of course if Ra's Al Ghul is a real dick, maybe he told all the women in the city to bugger off once he noticed that his daughter was letting the side down?

 

[JanewayRulz!]

^ Point taken, Christopher.

Didn't Ra's tell Felicity last week that he left his wife and son without saying goodbye so they wouldn't be tortured/killed?

Didn't he say this week that he destroyed his hometown to ascend?

So is he saying he killed his wife and son, or are we to believe he waited till they moved away to destroy his hometown?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

^ Point taken, Christopher.

Didn't Ra's tell Felicity last week that he left his wife and son without saying goodbye so they wouldn't be tortured/killed?

Didn't he say this week that he destroyed his hometown to ascend?

So is he saying he killed his wife and son, or are we to believe he waited till they moved away to destroy his hometown?

I wouldn't put it past him to tell everyone a story that he is spinning to his purposes with a touch of manipulation.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I get the sense that they're setting up the H.I.V.E. and Damien Darhk as the big bads for season 4.

That this is their plan for season 4 had been an unconfirmed rumor online for over a month, actually maybe even longer. That a character named Damien was going to be associated with the League of Assassins some sites jumped to the unlikely assumption that Damien Wayne would be the main villain next year! Others though realized that there is a H.I.V.E. character named Damien Darhk.

 

[Morpheus 02]

So...I've missed some episodes, and some of the conversation between Felicity and Ray that took place this episode. Was there an explanation why Felicity asked Ray for his plane, but not for some of the nanobots she injected Ray with when he was about to die? Because it seems like those would have been pretty useful to try on Thea before going all the way to Nanda Parbat and knuckling under to Ra's...

Ooh, good point, that's quite a plot hole. They didn't explain it at all. Maybe they used up Ray's supply of nanobots on his own cure?

I was more bothered by the way Ollie just rejected Malcolm's STAR Labs suggestion out of hand. Why not try that first? The only reason Ollie insisted the Pit was the only answer was because the story arc demanded it.

Popping a blood clot is different from reversing death.

Oh no. Oh #####ing no.

Thea survived the blade of Ra's Al Gul.

Well.

Most of you probably picked up on that two weeks ago.

i'm sure we'll have some techno reason why they only work on Ray...and how they might have some tendency to malfunction, that the ATOM suit somehow keeps them in check.

I get the sense that they're setting up the H.I.V.E. and Damien Darhk as the big bads for season 4.

Meanwhile, I hope they aren't planning to write out Thea along with Roy. The hooded-archer thing is a surprisingly good look for her.

That is true...i am guessing the leave in very temporary...perhaps to guest star in the new Legends show for an episode or two...but they'll be back, when needed.

Main nitpick... that Laurel could keep up with the league's henchmen as long as she did in that final fight, despite showing us early on that a simple mugger could out maneuver her.

She was more motivated and focused. The thing with the mugger wasn't about lack of skill, but lack of concentration.

Funniest moment for me... was Nyssa's face when her dad, the demon, betrothed her to the next demon.

There's nothing funny about a father ordering his own daughter to be raped. That's what a forced marriage is (and Ra's left no doubt that he intends her to produce an heir). And it's doubly a violation given that Nyssa's a lesbian. Even with all the murder and brainwashing, this is perhaps the most unforgivably cruel thing Ra's has done, since it's so personal.

How do you know she's a lesbian? Sara was clealy bisexual...is there any reason Nyssa couldn't also be?

And also, murder to you is not in the same league (pun intended) as rape and manipulation?


Let's not forget, Nyssa apparently wants to be part of the League, with just about all of its weird rules & values (such as the ability to muuurder). If you commit that fully, you can't pick and choose...at least until you are the demon.

I wasn't sure why Ra's felt Nyssa had betrayed him.

...

Maybe it has been all about Nyssa and Sara all along.

That's certainly the root of their conflict. Ra's didn't approve of Nyssa's same-sex relationship, so he rejected her as his heir, and that led to their falling out.

And didn't she help Team Arrow a few weeks back, in an effort to foil Ra's's plans to make Oliver his heir? That would certainly be a betrayal in Ra's's eyes. (Ahh, too many apostrophes!!)

isn't Ra's issue really about Nyssa being in a same sex relationship...or rather because Sara does not believe in the League of Assassin's values...isn't the real problem he has is that Sara ditched the league in order to be a hero and help people...and do things like show mercy and kindness?

Didn't he send League members in early season 2 after Sara for that?

We know from Malcolm's involvement that Ra's is not the forgiving type when people deviate from his plans for them.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I get the sense that they're setting up the H.I.V.E. and Damien Darhk as the big bads for season 4.

That this is their plan for season 4 had been an unconfirmed rumor online for over a month, actually maybe even longer. That a character named Damien was going to be associated with the League of Assassins some sites jumped to the unlikely assumption that Damien Wayne would be the main villain next year! Others though realized that there is a H.I.V.E. character named Damien Darhk.

There is character named Ebeneezer Darrk/Doctor Dark in the comics. He headed the League for a while.

 

[Christopher]

That is true...i am guessing the leave in very temporary...perhaps to guest star in the new Legends show for an episode or two...but they'll be back, when needed.

Not "they." Reportedly, Colton Haynes only signed up for two seasons, and his contract is done. If he comes back after this season, it'll be as a guest star.

How do you know she's a lesbian? Sara was clealy bisexual...is there any reason Nyssa couldn't also be?

There's no reason Sara's orientation would be relevant to the question of Nyssa's. Statistically, Nyssa is more likely to be lesbian than bi, and we've seen no evidence that she has any interest in men.

And also, murder to you is not in the same league (pun intended) as rape and manipulation?

That's not what I said. I was talking of its emotional impact on me as a viewer of a work of fiction. TV Tropes calls it a "kick the dog moment" -- where a villain does something that, while not objectively or legally worse than their other crimes, still feels emotionally worse, crueler or more arbitrary.

It's one thing to be a career killer -- evil, certainly, but impersonal. Ra's kills people because he doesn't care about them, because they're strangers and he sees it simply as doing a job. But Nyssa is his daughter. He's supposed to love and accept and take care of her. If anyone forced her into a marriage against her will, it would be awful, but for her own father to do it is just painful to watch.

Let's not forget, Nyssa apparently wants to be part of the League, with just about all of its weird rules & values (such as the ability to muuurder). If you commit that fully, you can't pick and choose...at least until you are the demon.

But Nyssa's shown that she does have compassion and love in her, at least toward a selected sample of people. That's a partially redeeming feature, from a dramatic standpoint if nothing else. We're not a jury, we're television viewers, so whether we empathize with a fictional character matters more than what crimes they've committed. The fact that Ra's could be so uncaring toward his own daughter, so devoid of basic humanity, makes it effectively impossible to empathize with him or see him as a redeemable figure.

isn't Ra's issue really about Nyssa being in a same sex relationship...or rather because Sara does not believe in the League of Assassin's values...isn't the real problem he has is that Sara ditched the league in order to be a hero and help people...and do things like show mercy and kindness?

If that were all it was, Ra's wouldn't be forcing Nyssa to marry Oliver. And according to Malcolm in "The Magician" (granted, not an absolutely reliable source), Ra's considered Sara "the degenerate" who'd stolen his daughter's heart. "Degenerate" is a old code word for homosexuals.


Anyway, this is going on in the same week that the characters on The Flash are being giddy and happy about Captain Singh's upcoming marriage to his boyfriend, and the same week that the Supreme Court is hearing arguments on gay marriage. I'd say the producers are pretty clearly making a statement here.

 

[theenglish]

The producers couldn't predict that this would be the same week as the Supreme Court arguments. (Those are a pretty interesting read if you check out the reports on the full line of questioning from the judges on both sides of the argument--rather than just a CNN/FOX synopsis.)

I agree that the end was pretty horrible toward Nyssa.

That said, I am expecting Oliver to be playing a long game here--I don't believe he has been brainwashed.

I would also like Thea to actually be Speedy next year--her character and the actress have really grown this season.

Also, nice to see the actual Canary Cry in action.