Are fans actually usually right?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by suarezguy, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This word picture made my day.
     
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  2. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    OK, this is my last post on this topic, I promise.
    Milk is a very bad example, because there is a very limited, very open space where milk is in the backs of store. A better example of what I'm talking about would be if someone is looking for a specific action figure, which would be in a small box, in the toys sections of the backroom, which is one in stores like the one where I worked is of the bigger areas in the back, with three or four huge shelves stacked with dozens of boxes from the floor almost to the ceiling, some as small as barely a foot wide. I'm pretty sure there had to have been times I spent at least 15 - 20 minutes searching for a specific toy in the back. Luckily once I moved over the crafts & celebrations we had enough space on top of the aisles that the majority of our merchandise was on the floor, and most of the stuff that was in the back was just duplicates of what was on the floor.


    It's just luck of the draw really.

    That sounds like the best way to approach things, and it would be nice if more costumers actually did.

    Well, there's only so much you can do to control the involuntary reactions when you're trying to do a 2 person, 9 hour job by yourself in 6, with a boss on your ass because you're going to slow, and you have costumers stopping you every 5 minutes to ask where a certain type of paint is, or to cut 5 different yards of fabric, or to know where something that you've never heard of, that's not even in your department is, or wants to know when you'll get more of a certain color of paper plates is, or this, or that, or the other thing. No matter how hard you try, after a while that starts to get to you.



    Yes, that one is on her, but I had the opposite happen more times than I can count. And when I did run into those situations, I would often take the person to the area where that kind of stuff was, just to show them that we didn't have it.
    And to be clear, I only said that when I knew with absolute certainty we didn't have it, if there was even a chance we did, I would take them to the section of the department where it would be.
    One of my older sisters is in a wheel chair, and she's actually had random strangers just walk up and start pushing her chair without her permission.



    Most of the people I worked with her good people, and most of the time when things got ugly it was pretty much all on the customers.


    I don't get this, you'd think she'd just be happy to make any kind of a sale to anyone.
    I actually have the opposite reaction to that lady, I always get a kick out of seeing people who are going for things I wouldn't expect.
    I still remember the little girl who was all excited about getting to pick out a Hot Wheels car, and her parents seemed more than happy to let her.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Quote tags?
     
  4. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I apologize profusely for this, but I couldn't help myself.
    “Then you should say what you mean,” the March Hare went on. “I do,” Alice hastily replied; “at least–at least I mean what I say–that's the same thing, you know.” “Not the same thing a bit!” said the Hatter.
     
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  5. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    And just sometimes the audience does know what they're talking about - apparently a hell of a lot more than the people who made the show, movie, or whatever.

    Example: The TV show Reign is held up as a notorious example of how NOT to make a historical drama series. Nearly everything about it is factually WRONG. The only things they got right were the fact that Mary, Queen of Scots was a real person, as were the main members of the French royal family, and Queen Elizabeth I.

    I'll be happy to reply once you fix your quote tags.

    And please forgive a nitpick, but a "costumer" is someone who creates and makes costumes. A "customer" is someone who buys stuff.
     
  6. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fixed my last post.
     
  7. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well not exclusive keepers but if they didn't buy/watch something, including during the times when few did, there would be no more product and the professionals couldn't continue making a living.

    A lot of professionals do make very bad products.
     
  8. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Being a fan certainly helps. It’s a reason why shows like Mandalorian have a better reception than the sequel movies. The people behind them are fans and know what works and what doesn’t.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't trust fans. They are often unwilling to kill their darlings and play it extremely safe. Star Wars is a prime example.
     
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  10. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I expect you'd have to go back to the 70s or 80s to find a Star Wars project that wasn't filled with fans top to bottom. Everything that George Lucas hasn't written, all the great episodes, all the bad movies, they've all been authored by fans. Probably. I'm making some assumptions here.

    All of the worst fan fiction is by fans, all of the best forum arguments are by fans, but I know that if my car breaks down I'd want someone who knows how a car works to fix it, and if my favourite franchise is getting a spin-off I'd want someone who knows how it works to write it.
     
  11. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure JJ Abrams and the rest of the team behind the sequels were huge fans, I really think a lot of the issues people had stem from the fact that Abrams and co. were trying a huge fans, who didn't take the kind of chances non-fans would have taken.
     
  12. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Abrams just isn’t a very good storyteller. Didn’t help that they rushed TFA out as well.
     
  13. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Anyone claiming that the individuals behind the Sequel Trilogy were not Star Wars fans is lying.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I want some who knows how to write to write it.
     
  15. Ray Hardgrit

    Ray Hardgrit Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I have to admit, if the only two options were a writer who isn't a fan, and a fan who can't write, I'd probably go with the writer to do the writing. Especially now that online wikis are so convenient! It's not usually a choice they have to make though.
     
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  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But, it isn't just writing based upon knowledge. Writers are coming in to create their own story within the world.
     
  17. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    We're each talking about our own personal experiences. Mine involved milk, as in I needed it, it wasn't on the shelf, so I politely asked someone to please check in the back to see if they had any that hadn't been put out yet, and they did. So I got my milk, said 'thank you', paid for my groceries, and went home a satisfied customer.

    No doubt, but my point is that you should never assume the customer can't read negative body language and this might be enough to tip the scales into making the interaction even more unpleasant.

    That's despicable. I hope she told them off. Far too many disabled people don't speak up for themselves, as they're afraid to "cause trouble."

    This is why I've become an advocate for the disabled tenants in this building, pointing out safety hazards to the management and maintenance staff. I haven't yet had to actually say the words, "you could be sued for not fixing this situation" but I think they got the drift in a couple of cases when an elderly tenant in a wheelchair could have ended up in the hospital.

    I have had to contend with the manager claiming, "You're the ONLY one who ever complains about this" (whatever issue "this" might be), and I tell him, "No, I am not. I might be the only one who complains to you, but I'm definitely not the only one who complains. Some tenants are afraid to complain to management, for fear that some excuse might be given to evict them."

    And this "next tenant" bullshit... honestly, keep your current tenants happy and you'll have fewer "next tenants" to worry about.

    Yeah, it was bizarre. It's like she was personally offended that I'd pop in once, sometimes twice, a week. This was in the early '80s, and I was very much a dedicated book hunter back then, trying out new science fiction authors (new to me) and trying to collect all the books in specific series.

    Things got weird in another way. This store I'm talking about was the second of the second-hand bookstores to open downtown. The first one had already been around for something like 20 years. When each owner found out that I shopped for science fiction books at both places, each started asking questions about the other. Finally, after numerous questions of "what prices does she charge for novels/comics" or "what are her policies for people bringing in books" I finally said to both of them, "Look, I shop at both your stores, you each do things a little differently but not enough to make a huge difference, and don't put me in the middle." I did not say (though felt like saying it), "Don't use me to spy on your competitor."

    I patronized both places for years, until the second place was sold to someone who turned it into a primarily comic shop (though he kept the science fiction section). The other place became a combination bookstore/craft store. So I figured after some 20-odd years of being a customer, I'd ask if I could consign some of my needlework crafts there (I'd already been selling in other stores and at craft fairs). At first she said no, and I said, just let me bring in some samples and then decide, since it's not reasonable to say no, sight unseen. Both of us would make a bit of money, and there's no reason I wouldn't still browse the books when I came in.

    Well, she did like the samples I brought, and after I promised that she would have the exclusive on these items and I wouldn't sell them in anyone else's store, she agreed. This arrangement continued until she sold the store to someone else (her husband's job got transferred to another city so her only option was to sell and move).

    It was a bit sad, her having to sell... I remember when she'd moved her old store a couple of places over to this one (a bit larger), and I'd been passing by one day before she'd re-opened. She was looking at paint and carpet samples, and asked my opinion on colors. I told her, "Green carpet, shades of green for the shelves, light-colored walls. It's relaxing, people will stay longer, browse longer, and there'll be more likelihood that they'll find something they want to buy."

    She took my advice, and it seems to have worked. She never changed it in all the years from then until selling.
     
  18. TommyR01D

    TommyR01D Captain Captain

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    Indeed, fans are not a hivemind. There is no such thing as the fandom. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no fandom can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first...

    I find it a little strange that so many in this thread are condemning "fans" or "the fandom" as if they are themselves not part of it. It's reminiscent of politicians decrying "the political class" or "the establishment".

    Whenever sweeping statements are made about "fans" it's nearly always disparaging. Fans liked an episode you didn't? "Uh, stupid fans'll clap anything!" Fans didn't like an episode you did? "Come on fans, lighten up!".

    Perhaps, on some level, it's an attempt to make yourself seem better (or rather, closer to "normal people" or God forbid "the real world") by putting down fandom as a faceless whole. You're not like those other fans. You're one of the good ones. You know your place. It's all an elaborate virtue signal - though to whom they're signalling is not exactly clear.

    100% of married men die.
     
  19. Steve Roby

    Steve Roby Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Not so much virtue signalling as self-aggrandizement. "You're all sheep, I am the clear-eyed, intelligent viewer with devastating insights into what's really going on, so watch my latest three-hour-long youtube video."

    Not sure that works. I was a married man and I'm not now. I didn't die. My wife did. If I die today, it won't be as a married man.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I am a part of it and I suck. I am not ignorant of this fact.

    ETA:
    [LEFT][SIZE=4][COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)]
    Indeed. It's amusing as :censored: to hear people not slam Abrams for doing Star Wars wrong after slamming him for doing Star Trek wrong and telling him to go do Star Wars. There's a reason why I don't trust fans, myself included, We have significant blind spots, and those blind spots make us rather irrational, including in our hatred of production teams. Lucas was widely reviled and now people treat him as some sort of second coming if he were to come back.

    It's the same as the attitude with retail workers and customers. I see the same generalizations of "all retailers suck!" and "employees suck" and "customers suck." We're generalizing everything, including how people are going to react. Fun fact: not every reaction is based upon what you think it is. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/LEFT]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022