I don't know those actors, but it is also one of my favorite Black Mirror episodes because it is very intense story!
Spoilers Arachnids in the UK grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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I really liked this episode even though I also felt the plot was a bit rushed at the end and left a lot of open questions. What will happen to the spider carcasses? How will the dead people be explained? What will happen to the scientist? I mean, I can easily come up with answers so it's no biggie but I would have liked a throwaway line at least. This already bothered me a bit in the first episode. But then, we did a time jump to Grace's funeral so it was easier to assume that something of the sort had happened in between.
What elevated the episode to a much higher level for me were the interactions between the characters and the interesting side characters. I'm really enjoying that about the new series. My favourite moment was the Doctor being sad at having to leave her friends and then enthusiatically agreeing to tea at Yaz. I also liked the wacky tea prep with Yaz's family.
Robertson (?) was an interesting character. At first I thought he'd be a cliché Trump stand-in but then he turned out to be his opponent and a somewhat ethical business man (with a dark side, though). He also seemed to be truly attached to his bodyguard. I also liked that he was a bit weird. I hope we'll see him again.
It kind of reminds me of the Pertwee era as I enjoyed many serials with silly stories because of the character interactions.
The spiders were really creepy. I'm not scared of normal spiders but these big ones freaked me out a little.
What elevated the episode to a much higher level for me were the interactions between the characters and the interesting side characters. I'm really enjoying that about the new series. My favourite moment was the Doctor being sad at having to leave her friends and then enthusiatically agreeing to tea at Yaz. I also liked the wacky tea prep with Yaz's family.
Robertson (?) was an interesting character. At first I thought he'd be a cliché Trump stand-in but then he turned out to be his opponent and a somewhat ethical business man (with a dark side, though). He also seemed to be truly attached to his bodyguard. I also liked that he was a bit weird. I hope we'll see him again.
It kind of reminds me of the Pertwee era as I enjoyed many serials with silly stories because of the character interactions.
The spiders were really creepy. I'm not scared of normal spiders but these big ones freaked me out a little.
Well, in terms of TV/movie stuff, it's best claim to fame is probably "Threads" which is set in Sheffield. This has been on my mind during the episodes set there and added an ominous tone to them.
Me too. It may be a bit unfair because I really liked Twelve and thought his last series was really good but this one just feels better. It may also be due to having a female main character. I find that sort of empowering. (I didn't expect it to have such a tangible effect on me beforehand.)
The Green Death. Weirdly enough, I didn't think of that, even though I love the Pertwee era. Might have to hand in my fan card now.
Robertson was good, up until the end bit, when Chibnall did what so many British writers can't resist doing when writing American characters....he made him a ridiculous stereotype. I thought he was a pretty good "Trump-a-like", who's actually a lot like Trump, but apparently wants to run against him (probably BECAUSE they're a lot alike and he doesn't want to admit it...both arrogant, selfish, dismissive, germophobes, etc). I laughed when he said "I'm compromised!" after Kevin's demise. 
Kevin was the buffer, the right-hand man, the secret keeper and the fall guy.
I didn't laugh when Yas questioned his planned bathroom breaks, though. I get the implication was that he was OCD, but urologists will actually tell you to do that if you've had any sort of kidney issues. After a nasty kidney infection and sluggish kidneys afterward, I was told to try to use the bathroom every 4 hours. So, it's a thing. It's not a stretch to imagine a guy like that scheduling it out.
Kevin was the buffer, the right-hand man, the secret keeper and the fall guy. I didn't laugh when Yas questioned his planned bathroom breaks, though. I get the implication was that he was OCD, but urologists will actually tell you to do that if you've had any sort of kidney issues. After a nasty kidney infection and sluggish kidneys afterward, I was told to try to use the bathroom every 4 hours. So, it's a thing. It's not a stretch to imagine a guy like that scheduling it out.
With the truth, I hope. This isn't an alien invasion, it's a public health menace that's the result of corporate negligence and corruption, and it needs to be publicized.
I don't know where you got "somewhat ethical." He seemed totally unconcerned with ethics. He cut corners and allowed this disaster to happen, and instead of feeling any guilt or responsibility, he shouted incessantly about how none of this was provably his fault. He was utterly vile and reprehensible.
Are you forgetting the part where he shut his bodyguard in the bathroom with the killer spider and ignored his screams for help while he held the door closed?
I don't. I found him loud and unpleasant and kept wishing he'd just shut up. That was somewhat the intent, of course, but it's possible to play such a character in a way that makes them tolerable to the viewer, and in my view, Noth failed to achieve that.
I'm pretty phobic about arthropods in general, but these didn't bother me, I guess because I knew they were just CGI on a screen.
I think recent years have proven that many prominent business and political figures in the US today genuinely are ridiculous stereotypes. The thing about truly awful people in real life is that they're so extreme and one-dimensional in their behavior that they'd be badly written if they were fictional.
His business model was to renew old industrial areas which has a bit of an eco touch. I think the episode seemed ambiguous about how much he knew about the improper waste disposal from the start. He also helped the Doctor and her team.
No, but immediately after that he opened the door and asked if he was okay. So it seems he didn't quite realise what was happening. Or he was remorseful about having shut the door. As I said, Robertson seemed like a clichéd villain at the beginning but became more ambiguous.
Superficially, yes, but in practice he built a hotel directly on top of a dangerously mismanaged toxic waste dump! That's not ethics, that's using the pretense of ethics as a smokescreen for grossly unethical behavior.
It was completely unambiguous that his only concern was covering his own ass. He fired Yaz's Mum for nothing more than being in the room while he was being told about the problem, because he didn't want any witnesses to link him to the crime.
He did more to obstruct than to help. He only tagged along because they were helping him keep alive.
Are you kidding me??? He actively prevented Kevin from escaping the room, thereby guaranteeing his death, and you think the fact that he felt slightly bad about it afterward makes it completely okay?? His cowardice got a man killed. The fact that he shed a few crocodile tears afterward does not make him a decent human being. If anything, his "concern" for Kevin probably had more to do with his own fear of being left alone without a bodyguard than any actual compassion.
No, that's not what I think or said. I said he was not a clichéd villain but more ambiguous. In my opinion. Obviously, your reading of the episode is different. No need to get upset.
There's a lot I really liked about this episode, and it continues the run of really good episodes. I think the spiders were incredibly creepy. The show continues to look great. And the music, while mixed a little loud, created great tension. The cast continues to be great and engaging. Walsh is fantastic.
I really like Noth. I had never seen him give a performance like this before and it was great fun. Yeah, I wasn't to thrilled with the Trump thing, even with the lampshade, but, it was fine. It follows in a long tradition off the terrible and unethical businessman creating trouble for us mortals. (It's just now closer to reality than it has ever been.)
My only quibble with the episode, the Doctor did a lot of discovering of information, but, that was about it. She didn't do much with that information--but, trap the spiders in a room. I'm not sure what I WANTED, but the Doctor felt more like a participant than the problem solver. Again, not sure what I wanted...
I'm also growing a little disenchanted with the TARDIS interior. I don't know if it's the actual set or how it's being shot, but, it feels so cramped around the console, it's bugging me.
I really like Noth. I had never seen him give a performance like this before and it was great fun. Yeah, I wasn't to thrilled with the Trump thing, even with the lampshade, but, it was fine. It follows in a long tradition off the terrible and unethical businessman creating trouble for us mortals. (It's just now closer to reality than it has ever been.)
My only quibble with the episode, the Doctor did a lot of discovering of information, but, that was about it. She didn't do much with that information--but, trap the spiders in a room. I'm not sure what I WANTED, but the Doctor felt more like a participant than the problem solver. Again, not sure what I wanted...
I'm also growing a little disenchanted with the TARDIS interior. I don't know if it's the actual set or how it's being shot, but, it feels so cramped around the console, it's bugging me.
Well, I didn't see any ambiguity at all. Of course he put on a pretense of human decency, but there was nothing beneath the facade. Actions matter, not words. And his actions were consistently harmful to others.
Agreed. I don't like it. It's hard to see the controls, and looks very cramped, as opposed to the openness of the others.
The morality on this show is so messed up.
The episode begins with NotTrump trying to cover something up and firing Yaz's mom. Now the whole firing was superfluous to the plot and is only in the episode to make us hate NotTrump. And now that we hate this man, when he later in the episode takes a position in opposition to The Doctor we're going to side with her just because we hate him and love her. I hate that type of lazy, emotional manipulation in shows.
Now that brings us to the ethical question of the episode -- is it okay to kill giant mutant spiders that are trying to kill you? We as a society decided that it's perfectly okay to kill normal spiders crawling around in your house for no other reason than you don't want them in your house, but apparently if those spiders grow in size and are threatening your life you're supposed to go out of your way to save them.
So NotTrump is all in on loading up on guns and killing the spiders. The Doctor is horrified by the idea of shooting them and instead tells the team that the humane thing to do is lure them into a small room, seal them in, and wait for them to starve to death. Uh, yeah, I'm with NotTrump here.
Okay, sure, NotTrump is a selfish git, but he's hardly the bad guy that the episode wants us to think he is. On the other hand, the scientist lady gets a free pass despite being the cause of the whole situation. She and her company experimented on normal spiders and disposed of their corpses after the experiments (but I thought killing spiders was wrong?), but failed to do so properly and released one of the mutant spiders in the wild.
The episode begins with NotTrump trying to cover something up and firing Yaz's mom. Now the whole firing was superfluous to the plot and is only in the episode to make us hate NotTrump. And now that we hate this man, when he later in the episode takes a position in opposition to The Doctor we're going to side with her just because we hate him and love her. I hate that type of lazy, emotional manipulation in shows.
Now that brings us to the ethical question of the episode -- is it okay to kill giant mutant spiders that are trying to kill you? We as a society decided that it's perfectly okay to kill normal spiders crawling around in your house for no other reason than you don't want them in your house, but apparently if those spiders grow in size and are threatening your life you're supposed to go out of your way to save them.
So NotTrump is all in on loading up on guns and killing the spiders. The Doctor is horrified by the idea of shooting them and instead tells the team that the humane thing to do is lure them into a small room, seal them in, and wait for them to starve to death. Uh, yeah, I'm with NotTrump here.
Okay, sure, NotTrump is a selfish git, but he's hardly the bad guy that the episode wants us to think he is. On the other hand, the scientist lady gets a free pass despite being the cause of the whole situation. She and her company experimented on normal spiders and disposed of their corpses after the experiments (but I thought killing spiders was wrong?), but failed to do so properly and released one of the mutant spiders in the wild.
Meh.. I got a Green Death Vibe from this.. instead of Toxic giant slugs, we got toxic Giant spiders.. Boring. Yawn..
Hmmm. I get your point, but I don't know if it's such a bad thing for the format and formula of the show to change. But you're not wrong, there was certainly a Primeval bent to the episode.
Christopher said:
Fair. The Doctor is more or less usually killed indirectly, incarnation to incarnation. It's just such an odd listing of who's been involved that spiders stick out in my mind, despite their inactive... legs?... at work. But this felt like a good instance for an oblique reference. "If you see any crystals, don't take 'em. The spiders are very protective." Still, I would have liked to have seen the Meteblis jumping puppets square off with these very finely rendered CGI spiders.
Christopher said:
See, I don't know. While I think it's fair to follow your presumption, I don't think that's quite how the episode lays it out. Jade's rebuttal to Robertson isn't "Until I can solve the problem, or let's deal with it" but rather "Nope, killing them is bad, but locking them away is the humane thing." It's not an uncommon read of the scene either based on looking at the thread. The solution the Doctor offers is to bait them into the secret room with Roberton's supply of food and that "fat bass" from Ryan's phone. There's no other talk of what to do once they're in there besides locking them away. Presumably they'll either grow and grow and grow and crush each other, or suffocate/starve after 6 months. It seemed half-thoughout. Indeed, we also don't seem to have a good sense of what happened afterward. Will it be cleaned up? Did the Doctor call UNIT or the UK's health and safety department? What about the other spiders, as Jade implies there's more out there. Is Sheffield doing to be overrun with "immortal but constantly growing" spiders? While I enjoyed the more grounded approach, I think a "exponential growth reversal signal" from the hotel's antenna would have felt more complete. Unless, of course Chibnall's point is the Doctor is messy and not cleaning up those messes has ramifications.
I just felt it was off for the Doctor to be idly watching a being suffocate to death when there's a million things the Doctor would try. Strikes an odd chord with her over-charged empathy and her "I help people" attitude. Robertson clearly isn't actually providing a mercy kill, but it's muddled. Folks using TV logic of quick and "painless" gun shots will certain have a hard time parsing it.
Curious what you mean by confusing editing?
It's certainly the magic moment of the episode and I think it's going to be the new standard to have the companions actually deal with what traveling with the Doctor means. (Katarina could have used that speech!)
I liked Donna a lot. It was sad that she didn't get to remember any of it.
As for Graham, well Bradley is also widely known. There is a personable element to his likeability, so I'm not surprised the audience has related to him. All he has to do is be 'Graham'. The Doctor has to be a history, a legacy and a continuation of all those Doctors before. At the very least they need a presence. They might be irritating and scatty, or wordy and manic, or bitter and confused, or passionate and entertaining, but never meh and bland.
Why do people keep thinking that was the plan?? Jade explained earlier how her institute humanely killed spiders, and she used the same language to talk about what they'd do with the spiders after they were contained in the panic room. It was self-evident to me that she meant she'd bring in the necessary euthanizing agents from her lab.
No, the specialist contractors they hired to dispose of the spiders cut corners and dumped them in the landfill. This is another thing, like the euthanasia method, that was specifically set up as a Chekhov's Gun in the scene in Jade's lab so that we'd remember it when it came up again at the climax.
Of course not. Change is what's allowed Doctor Who to thrive for so long. But it's still retained its own distinctive character that was unlike other shows. It's not that I don't want DW to change, it's that I want it to change in a fresh and interesting way rather than feeling like a copy of other shows. I don't want episodes that make people say "That reminds me of Star Trek" or "That reminds me of Quantum Leap." I want episodes that make people say "That feels like Doctor Who, but in a fascinatingly new way."
Yeah, but why does everyone keep assuming the plan was to let them suffocate? Robertson explicitly said that it was possible to survive in there for 6 months. And the spiders weren't nearly large enough to suffocate from their own weight like the queen. It seemed clear to me that the plan was just to contain them so that they could be dealt with later.
Yes, there is. See my first paragraph above.
Why in the world would you presume that? It's not like the panic room was permanently sealed. They were able to unlock it the first time, so they could do it again. The panic room was just to contain them until Jade could deal with them properly, which would obviously take much less than 6 months. She's got this whole lab that specializes in spiders, that has experience with euthanizing them humanely and has the resources to do so, and the whole thing is partly her responsibility in the first place and thus she should be involved in cleaning it up. How does it make any sense at all to presume she'd just sit back and do absolutely nothing for 6 months after that door was locked? Especially when we knew from her dialogue that it was important to her to end spider lives humanely?
That's not Chibnall's fault, it's the fault of all the other writers who've used that misleading trope.
Yeah, this is weird to me, too. A lot of people seem to be confused on this point. Hell, even the A.V. Club reviewer made this assumption. I thought it was pretty clear what The Doctor's intentions were for the trapped spiders.
I never realized just how many actors have appeared on DW and Law & Order. That's not exactly a crossover that you'd expect to see.
I mean, of course there's Chris Noth from the mothership. And also Bradley Walsh, Freema Agyeman, and Peter Davison in L&O:UK.
Are there any others?
I mean, of course there's Chris Noth from the mothership. And also Bradley Walsh, Freema Agyeman, and Peter Davison in L&O:UK.
Are there any others?
Ben Bailey Smith is is in this series.
Fair enough, but that doesn't change anything. The Doctor is fine with gassing them, but freaks out about shooting them. It's hypocritical.
Ah... but there's a message there. The not NotTrump crew are just as hypocritical and dangerous in their progressive humanity as those they pretend to be better than
