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Approaching holidays...are we thinking the same thing?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Warped9/BRletter-1.gif

I'm going to try getting a copy of that Saturday edition from the paper at their office.

Speaking of editors, would it kill you to use a little brevity? The first ten out of twenty paragraphs of your letter; literally half of it, have little or nothing to do with the "Christmas decorations in stores" topic promised by the title. There's more pointless rambling about the good ole' days than in a Wilford Brimley infomercial about "diabeetus."

Let's hope your bosses at the store are either very inattentive or very forgiving, since you've now taken an internal complaint you had about company policy and published it in the largest newspaper in a relatively small town... with your name on it. In addition to accusing them of being Grinches, you've accused them of naked avarice, hypocrisy, failing to have an adequate number of employees on hand for the holidays, increasing workplace stress, not caring about the customer's or employee's happiness, and not caring about the traditions and values of the country.

If I was your boss(es) and I used my keen detective skills of reading your name after that angry screed, I'd be pretty pissed. You at least had the presence of mind not to name the store, but that hardly changes what you said about your bosses in the open forum of the town's largest newspaper. Nor would it take that much effort for customers to find out what store is being referred to in a town of only 22,000 if they're the type who are given to being upset by this type of thing.

Good luck. I hope it was worth it to make your stand publicly instead of just dealing with things internally at the company.
 
^^ The thing is I didn't send it to the paper as a letter. I sent it to the city desk (or whatever they call it) thinking perhaps they might get the idea to do a story about it. When they called me some days later to verify I had written it I told them that I hadn't sent it as a letter or I would have edited it down for brevity and more directly to the point rather than laying a foundation for the overall viewpoint. In fact I offered to do just that. But the woman on the phone replied they liked it pretty much as it was and felt it was worth putting in their Saturday edition.

Truth is very few people read this paper, primarily because it's local, and my superiors already happen to know my views for quite some time preceding this. And during the course of everyday work routine I've only aired my opinion when the subject has been raised, but it isn't something I preach whenever I can when talking to someone. There have certainly been no open arguments about it.
 
You mean "public", public, right? I ask because I'm one of those people who like to put up Christmas lights on the house. If you're not getting secondary radiation burns from being within visual distance of the house, I'm not trying hard enough. :D


I mean public ;) .But I don't consider that every Christmas lights have a religious meaning. It's also decorated everywhere over here (to a lesser degree than the USA for houses, I think. Silly Americans ;) ) but I don't really see a religious meaning behind them. When I see the Champs Elysées at Christmas, I don't think "OMG, it's so catholic !" :lol:

Personally, I think most over here do it because it's festive and fun, not because it actually has any religious meaning, even if the person who is doing it is overly religious. I would bet that if you walked up to them and asked, they really don't know how and why Christmas lights got started and they just do it because it's the season for it.

J, you don't happen to belong to the Clark Griswold/Tim Taylor School of Holiday decorating, do you? :p
 
I find it obscene that Christians in the Western world are trying to paint themselves as victims and "oppressed".

Honestly it makes me sick because it ridicules minority groups that are REALLY oppressed. Don't compare your petty issues to real oppression and discrimination.

I'd find it ridiculous even in secular Europe but even more so in Christian US where politicians can't even openly admit to being atheist.

Where's this whole insane discrimination rhetoric coming from? Some people simply seem to be upset that reality tends to be pluralistic and multicultural today and that YOUR religion isn't really shared by everyone else.

I'm sorry about the rant but I just had to. Christians talking about being oppressed in North America should feel ashamed.
 
I find it obscene that Christians in the Western world are trying to paint themselves as victims and "oppressed".

Honestly it makes me sick because it ridicules minority groups that are REALLY oppressed. Don't compare your petty issues to real oppression and discrimination.

I'd find it ridiculous even in secular Europe but even more so in Christian US where politicians can't even openly admit to being atheist.

Where's this whole insane discrimination rhetoric coming from? Some people simply seem to be upset that reality tends to be pluralistic and multicultural today and that YOUR religion isn't really shared by everyone else.

I'm sorry about the rant but I just had to. Christians talking about being oppressed in North America should feel ashamed.

I'll be even more blunt about it.

When's the last time a Christian in the US was dragged to death behind a truck?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was pulled over by police for "driving while Christian"?

When's the last time anyone protested the building of a Christian church in the US with a national media blitz?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was abducted, tied to a post, sodomized, beaten, and left to die just because they were Christian?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was kept from marrying the person of their choice?

(Substitute "in the US" with whatever Western nation you prefer--the story is likely to be just the same.)

Christians in the US have no fucking idea what it is to be oppressed. Pretending otherwise is not only delusional, it cheapens genuine suffering and oppression of actual minority groups.

Not allowed to put up Christmas decorations at the workplace? I've got four words for you: Get a fucking grip.
 
Christians in the US have no fucking idea what it is to be oppressed. Pretending otherwise is not only delusional, it cheapens genuine suffering and oppression of actual minority groups.

Exactly.

Doesn't take much courage to stand up and "defend" Christian traditions either. "Grats, you're on the majority's side, what a valiant effort."

I want to see the same Christians stand up in the name of charity and defend Muslims who aren't allowed on a plane just because they have a beard.
There are many Christians who do actually help the poor and minorities. They don't complain about "how hard it is to be Christian in North America" because they know that it's bullshit.

They stand up for causes that are actually relevant and help people in dire situations.

Christians with a victim complex are just giving the rest a bad reputation.



ETA: I don't mind christmas decoration. I don't mind if Christians ask their bosses if they can decorate the office. What I mind is the victim complex rhetoric and the general whining about the Decline of the West that often has xenophobe undertones.
 
I find it obscene that Christians in the Western world are trying to paint themselves as victims and "oppressed".

Honestly it makes me sick because it ridicules minority groups that are REALLY oppressed. Don't compare your petty issues to real oppression and discrimination.

I'd find it ridiculous even in secular Europe but even more so in Christian US where politicians can't even openly admit to being atheist.

Where's this whole insane discrimination rhetoric coming from? Some people simply seem to be upset that reality tends to be pluralistic and multicultural today and that YOUR religion isn't really shared by everyone else.

I'm sorry about the rant but I just had to. Christians talking about being oppressed in North America should feel ashamed.

I'll be even more blunt about it.

When's the last time a Christian in the US was dragged to death behind a truck?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was pulled over by police for "driving while Christian"?

When's the last time anyone protested the building of a Christian church in the US with a national media blitz?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was abducted, tied to a post, sodomized, beaten, and left to die just because they were Christian?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was kept from marrying the person of their choice?

(Substitute "in the US" with whatever Western nation you prefer--the story is likely to be just the same.)

Christians in the US have no fucking idea what it is to be oppressed. Pretending otherwise is not only delusional, it cheapens genuine suffering and oppression of actual minority groups.

Not allowed to put up Christmas decorations at the workplace? I've got four words for you: Get a fucking grip.

It goes without saying that you can substitute "white male heterosexual" for Christian in most of those.
 
Great Caesar's ghost, people. It's fricking OCTOBER! :wtf:

Can we at least wait until after Thanksgiving before we start bitching at one another about Christmas?
 
You mean "public", public, right? I ask because I'm one of those people who like to put up Christmas lights on the house. If you're not getting secondary radiation burns from being within visual distance of the house, I'm not trying hard enough. :D


I mean public ;) .But I don't consider that every Christmas lights have a religious meaning. It's also decorated everywhere over here (to a lesser degree than the USA for houses, I think. Silly Americans ;) ) but I don't really see a religious meaning behind them. When I see the Champs Elysées at Christmas, I don't think "OMG, it's so catholic !" :lol:

Personally, I think most over here do it because it's festive and fun, not because it actually has any religious meaning, even if the person who is doing it is overly religious. I would bet that if you walked up to them and asked, they really don't know how and why Christmas lights got started and they just do it because it's the season for it.

J, you don't happen to belong to the Clark Griswold/Tim Taylor School of Holiday decorating, do you? :p

I measure my holiday spirit in amperes. :D
 
I find it obscene that Christians in the Western world are trying to paint themselves as victims and "oppressed".

Honestly it makes me sick because it ridicules minority groups that are REALLY oppressed. Don't compare your petty issues to real oppression and discrimination.

I'd find it ridiculous even in secular Europe but even more so in Christian US where politicians can't even openly admit to being atheist.

Where's this whole insane discrimination rhetoric coming from? Some people simply seem to be upset that reality tends to be pluralistic and multicultural today and that YOUR religion isn't really shared by everyone else.

I'm sorry about the rant but I just had to. Christians talking about being oppressed in North America should feel ashamed.

I'll be even more blunt about it.

When's the last time a Christian in the US was dragged to death behind a truck?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was pulled over by police for "driving while Christian"?

When's the last time anyone protested the building of a Christian church in the US with a national media blitz?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was abducted, tied to a post, sodomized, beaten, and left to die just because they were Christian?

When's the last time a Christian in the US was kept from marrying the person of their choice?

(Substitute "in the US" with whatever Western nation you prefer--the story is likely to be just the same.)

Christians in the US have no fucking idea what it is to be oppressed. Pretending otherwise is not only delusional, it cheapens genuine suffering and oppression of actual minority groups.

Not allowed to put up Christmas decorations at the workplace? I've got four words for you: Get a fucking grip.

It goes without saying that you can substitute "white male heterosexual" for Christian in most of those.

Quite true. And if you're a white male heterosexual Christian living in a Western nation, I'd say you can't really have it much better in this life, as far as accidents of birth/upbringing go. :lol:
 
Great Caesar's ghost, people. It's fricking OCTOBER! :wtf:

Can we at least wait until after Thanksgiving before we start bitching at one another about Christmas?

The internet does 50% of its bitching between October 1st and December 25th. That's half a year's bitching in three month's time. It seems to me, an intelligent country would legislate a second such complaint provoking holiday. Create, say, a Christmas 2, late May, early June, to further dissipate whining.
 
Quite true. And if you're a white male heterosexual Christian living in a Western nation, I'd say you can't really have it much better in this life, as far as accidents of birth/upbringing go. :lol:


"God said : "there will be white men, there will be black men, there will be tall men, there will be short men, there will be nice men and there will be ugly men, and all will be equal but it will not be easy ... And then he added, there will be some who will be black, short and ugly and for them it will be very hard!""

Or something like that, God was not fluent in English ;)
 
So if your religion really is tolerant how 'bout you back off on throwing it in our faces a little, okay? I don't hang up signs that say "There's no proof Jesus was born!" in December so there's no need for religious folks to put up their stuff.

It's good that you would not put up such a sign, but it has been done:

http://www2.wjbf.com/news/2008/dec/05/christmas_display_to_contain_christmas_tree_nativi-ar-222238/

But that's exactly what you were talking about upthread, people of many faiths/non-faiths celebrating the holidays together: "If you believe, as I do, that all people deserve respect and free self-expression, then majority and minority both should enjoy that privilege. I don't think the solution is for anyone to be in the closet. Have something different to offer from what you see around you? Please share. :)"

So why would it be "good" for sidious to "be in the closet" about expressing his beliefs if everyone else is going over-the-top about expressing theirs?

First, I did not say sidious was the type of person responsible for that kind of sign, so please don't put words in my mouth.

Second, where the hell are you getting this "over the top" business? Again, not in any of my posts. You made that up.

Third, I specifically said in an earlier post that expression where people attack each other's beliefs should not be tolerated. The type of sign sidious is talking about, and that actually happened in Olympia, is not a mere statement of belief. It is the equivalent of the example upthread of someone hanging up a "You're going to Hell" sign; it's instead saying "You're an idiot."

So I will thank you to please a) read and b) not make words up that people did not say so that you can argue an easier case than the one you are really faced with.
 

Third, I specifically said in an earlier post that expression where people attack each other's beliefs should not be tolerated. The type of sign sidious is talking about, and that actually happened in Olympia, is not a mere statement of belief.

It's not something I would choose to do, but how is this not a statement of beliefs, or rather a lack thereof?

But a new addition will be a sign sponsored by the Freedom from Religion Foundation celebrating the winter solstice. The foundation says it will declare, in part, "There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell," and, "Religion is but myth and superstition."

How is it functionally any different from you essentially saying your beliefs are the correct interpretation of human existence versus Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist beliefs by putting up your own signs and symbols?

It seems to me that any display of atheist thought would therefore be considered an "attack" on your beliefs and inappropriate to display going by the standard you establish above.
 
Great Caesar's ghost, people. It's fricking OCTOBER! :wtf:

Can we at least wait until after Thanksgiving before we start bitching at one another about Christmas?


Why, What does thanksgiving have to do with it whether or not people want to moan about Christmas?

In the US, Thanksgiving might mark some sort of wartershed point however quite a few people on these boards don't reside in the US.
 
Great Caesar's ghost, people. It's fricking OCTOBER! :wtf:

Can we at least wait until after Thanksgiving before we start bitching at one another about Christmas?


Why, What does thanksgiving have to do with it whether or not people want to moan about Christmas?

In the US, Thanksgiving might mark some sort of wartershed point however quite a few people on these boards don't reside in the US.

Next you'll tell me Canada isn't America's hat.
 

Third, I specifically said in an earlier post that expression where people attack each other's beliefs should not be tolerated. The type of sign sidious is talking about, and that actually happened in Olympia, is not a mere statement of belief.

It's not something I would choose to do, but how is this not a statement of beliefs, or rather a lack thereof?

But a new addition will be a sign sponsored by the Freedom from Religion Foundation celebrating the winter solstice. The foundation says it will declare, in part, "There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell," and, "Religion is but myth and superstition."

How is it functionally any different from you essentially saying your beliefs are the correct interpretation of human existence versus Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist beliefs by putting up your own signs and symbols?

It seems to me that any display of atheist thought would therefore be considered an "attack" on your beliefs and inappropriate to display going by the standard you establish above.

You said it better than I would've.
 
Great Caesar's ghost, people. It's fricking OCTOBER! :wtf:

Can we at least wait until after Thanksgiving before we start bitching at one another about Christmas?
Why, What does thanksgiving have to do with it whether or not people want to moan about Christmas?

In the US, Thanksgiving might mark some sort of wartershed point however quite a few people on these boards don't reside in the US.
Lies! :klingon:

Okay, yeah, in retrospect that was kinda dumb. I tend to post before I think. :ouch:
 
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