Data's death was fine, both times.
Anyone's opinion of NEM improve because of "Star Trek: Picard"?
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
Data's death was pointless the first time (Spiner specifically said it's because he was getting too old to play an ageless android, but they introduced B4 at the same time), and his suicide in Picard was random.
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It was so pointless I actually enjoyed a TNG film...
It was so pointless I actually enjoyed a TNG film...
Counting Galaxy Quest, Nemesis falls just short of making my top 13 Star Trek films.
And pretty much happened for the same reason.
love the subtle irony.
Counting only TNG films Nemesis is my number two Star Trek film.
I have about the same amount of "personal LOL factor" regarding including "Galaxy Quest" in Trek movie comparisons as I do for including "The Orville" in Trek television series rankings.
Which is to say, I have none.
It's a relatively cheap trick to try and prove a point.
Data's death never bothered me in the slightest. Nor did Spock's, Yar's or Kirk's. Are they sad/emotional? Yes. Do I have some fanboy need for it to be erased and/or for them all to have glorious, epic deaths? No. Life doesn't work that way. Sometimes you die because of an oil slick or a collapsing bridge.
Same. I studied a lot of classic literature and death was not always dramatic. It was often random, or inglorious, or impersonal. I'm not going to expect differently because Star Trek.Data's death never bothered me in the slightest. Nor did Spock's, Yar's or Kirk's. Are they sad/emotional? Yes. Do I have some fanboy need for it to be erased and/or for them all to have glorious, epic deaths? No. Life doesn't work that way. Sometimes you die because of an oil slick or a collapsing bridge.
Nothing could improve my opinion on Nemesis. And PIC certainly didn’t help either. Cause I don’t have a very favorable opinion on that show either.
cheap trick? Not sure what the trick would be here.
or sometimes when you are given a chance to fulfill your life dream you just decide you prefer to die, I guess.Data's death never bothered me in the slightest. Nor did Spock's, Yar's or Kirk's. Are they sad/emotional? Yes. Do I have some fanboy need for it to be erased and/or for them all to have glorious, epic deaths? No. Life doesn't work that way. Sometimes you die because of an oil slick or a collapsing bridge.
To make a film appear worse.
It happens to people. Data had been trapped in a purgatory state and decided he was done. Insert euthanasia argument here.
He could have written top 12. Big difference.
Most euthanasia laws doesn't apply when a way to improve the patient's condition is available.
I wasn't discussing laws. Simply arguments I have heard in the past.
But, ultimately, Data made his choice. We don't have to agree with it and that's fine. But, I'm not going to hold that against Picard because I don't agree. I think that part of it was the existence Data had endured which would have felt like several lifetimes from his POV. I think part of it was recognizing the value that his past death may have had to Picard while recognizing a desire to not go through such a choice again.
I included it because it's a movie I love, in some part because of my Trek fandom, but I hardly needed it to prove my point. 13 out of 13 is pretty much just as poor a showing as 14 out of 14.
Hardly needed, and may not be possible...
Depends greatly on point of view.
Nemesis is my 11th or 12th favorite out of 13 Star Trek movies. Its exact position isn't a lock, but it's down there.
Picard moved the needle of my opinion of Nemesis up a little bit, as I said before. In 2002, I would've given NEM a 3 out of 10. It nudged up to about a 4 in 2010 (thanks to the passage of time). Now it's at about a 5 (thanks to PIC).
The Blue Skies song has more weight with me now that I've seen it used in Picard as its two anchoring points at the beginning and end of the first season. And I like that Picard & Data had their goodbye that they didn't get in the films.
I also like they switched what happened to the TNG Characters in relation to their TOS counterparts. Kirk stayed dead, Picard didn't. Spock didn't stay dead, Data did.
Also: my take on Data wishing to stay dead is that normally a Human (which he always wanted to be) wouldn't have their mind transferred to another body. Not even at the turn of the 25th Century. So, in turn, what happened to Picard is not what would happen to a Human. So, in fact, you can argue that Data became more human than Picard.
Though Data had a choice in what happened to him (both in Nemesis and Picard), while the choice was removed from Picard both times. Data sacrificed himself to save Picard in NEM. Then Picard was dead/unconscious while he was put in a Gollum Body. He didn't have a say in what he is now, he is what he is, and now -- I assume -- he'll find out just what type of prejudices he'll have to deal with that he never had to think of before.
Picard moved the needle of my opinion of Nemesis up a little bit, as I said before. In 2002, I would've given NEM a 3 out of 10. It nudged up to about a 4 in 2010 (thanks to the passage of time). Now it's at about a 5 (thanks to PIC).
The Blue Skies song has more weight with me now that I've seen it used in Picard as its two anchoring points at the beginning and end of the first season. And I like that Picard & Data had their goodbye that they didn't get in the films.
I also like they switched what happened to the TNG Characters in relation to their TOS counterparts. Kirk stayed dead, Picard didn't. Spock didn't stay dead, Data did.
Also: my take on Data wishing to stay dead is that normally a Human (which he always wanted to be) wouldn't have their mind transferred to another body. Not even at the turn of the 25th Century. So, in turn, what happened to Picard is not what would happen to a Human. So, in fact, you can argue that Data became more human than Picard.
Though Data had a choice in what happened to him (both in Nemesis and Picard), while the choice was removed from Picard both times. Data sacrificed himself to save Picard in NEM. Then Picard was dead/unconscious while he was put in a Gollum Body. He didn't have a say in what he is now, he is what he is, and now -- I assume -- he'll find out just what type of prejudices he'll have to deal with that he never had to think of before.
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Obi Wan has taught you well.
Nemesis starts well, and ends well, in my opinion. Shame about the 1 hour in the middle that is really boring.
Personally would rather have seen B4 in Picard as a flawed android with Datas memories but not Data.
Seems a bit harsh they just shoved him In a drawer.
Personally would rather have seen B4 in Picard as a flawed android with Datas memories but not Data.
Seems a bit harsh they just shoved him In a drawer.
You and I can be friends. hahaha
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