Anyone on this board dislike Star Wars?
- Thread starter heavylids
- Start date
ROTJ was certainly a warning of things to come.
If Lucas wanted Star Wars to remain kid-friendly, he should have chosen any story to tell other than how Anakin became Vader. The story of how a good person becomes evil (or how an evil person fools all the good people from first to last) isn't ever going to be kid-friendly. If you try to make it one, you will make a mess, and a mess is what we got.
Here's a more obviously kid-friendly idea: do a trilogy set after ROTJ. If you want to start where the story left off, re-cast Luke, Leia and Han. The kids won't care and even most grownups wouldn't care, if you re-cast them reasonably well. The heroes are heroic, the villains are villanous, kids will get that. No need to delve into psychology or politics, which are definitely not Star Wars' forte, and not really kid-friendly fodder unless they're simplified to the point where they become meaningless mush.
Because a world populated by people living aboard spaceships which routinely traverse an entire galaxy in a matter of days, mystical warrior-monks with magic powers and swords made of pure energy, and space cowboys with walking, talking alien co-pilots, isn't already ridiculous enough.
Those things are comparatively easy to accept, even the part about bending light because its not a situation we would ever run into so we accept it all. But now, when we see characters try to physically beat each other up, reality starts to kick in because we know what its like to fight physically. (Force Push not withstanding)
Ewoks shattered our suspension of disbelief in two ways.
One, they broke the most fundamental rules of physics (leverage and momentum.) We all have real world experiences with toddlers and we intrinsically know that a toddler could never beat up a grown adult, not to mention trained soldiers wearing armors, using clubs and spears.
Two, they destroyed the image that Storm Troopers are supposed to be feared through out the galaxy. How the hell are those troopers able to hold a galaxy under the rule of the Empire when it doesn't take much to defeat them? Keep in mind that rebels were losing for the most part.
It's kind of strange, but the Expanded Universe novels and comics which follow ROTJ do dwelve a lot into psychology and politics. In fact, the villain of the Thrawn trilogy's whole trick is that he uses a culture's art as insight into their psychology, and there are countless scenes that taike place in councils and senates and feature debates on the meaning of the force. Yet the books/comics/games-despite the 'it's not canon!' argument and how people argue that the saga wrapped entirely with ROTJ-are generally better received among fans than the prequels were.
Funny thing is, the Jedi Academy books by Kevin Anderson are actually closer to the Star Wars films in tone than Zahn's trilogy (Which has a more military feel), as they feature a lot of fantastical elements, superweapons, and force stuff. (KJA is also the main writer of the Tales of the Jedi stories which became the basis for the popular Knights of The Old Republic games) And yet fans seem to hate them....(maybe because in the mid-90s KJA seemed to have a bit too much control over the Expanded Universe books...). Certainly Luke's apprentices gone to the dark side and an ancient sith lord are better than a smurf who likes art.
Funny thing is, the Jedi Academy books by Kevin Anderson are actually closer to the Star Wars films in tone than Zahn's trilogy (Which has a more military feel), as they feature a lot of fantastical elements, superweapons, and force stuff. (KJA is also the main writer of the Tales of the Jedi stories which became the basis for the popular Knights of The Old Republic games) And yet fans seem to hate them....(maybe because in the mid-90s KJA seemed to have a bit too much control over the Expanded Universe books...). Certainly Luke's apprentices gone to the dark side and an ancient sith lord are better than a smurf who likes art.
I've enjoyed different Star Wars films for different reasons, but I have to admit I've never been a huge fan the way some people are. I've always preferred Star Trek. It was just more entertaining to me.
Let me start by saying that I am a HUGE sci-fi fan in general...and yes, that includes both Star Trek AND Star Wars.
Really?!! You see, I'm just the exact opposite. I was a little younger though; I was only about 4 y/o when Star Wars (ANH) was released. To my knowledge, it was the very first movie I ever saw in a theater, and I was totally blown away by it! In fact, seeing Star Wars at such a young and impressionable age is most likely the reason why I am such a huge sci-fi fan to this day. I literally grew up with Star Wars, played with all the Star Wars action figures, and had all the books and movie posters, etc. It was a huge part of my childhood. So it should come as little surprise that I still consider the original Star Wars trilogy to be some of the greatest movies ever made. Granted I can now look back with the more cynical eyes of an adult and can see that they were not without their flaws, but that in no way diminishes my nostalgic love for them.
On a brief side note, I've always found it rather interesting that most fans seem to consider TESB to be the best of the original three movies, because it was actually my least favorite of the three. I mean, I always thought of that trilogy as one big story with three parts, and as such, ANH was the exciting beginning, the original, which introduced us to this amazing world and its characters. TRotJ was the epic, dramatic conclusion (and my favorite part) that resolved all the story treads of the previous two movies. But TESB for me always felt like...well...the boring middle part of a book that you have to wade though in order to get to the exciting stuff at the end. Don't get me wrong--there were (and are) parts of TESB that I really liked, and yet I guess it just wasn't as fun, fast-paced, and exciting, particularly to the young ADHD boy that I was back then.
So, what do I think of the prequel trilogy? Unlike some, I can’t say that I hated it, per say; but I was severely disappointed with it. It could have been SO much better if George had just bothered to put half as much effort into writing a decent script as he did into making it look “cool” with all of his new digital effects. I find it amusing how George, in I believe it was one of the commentaries for the first digitally remastered releases of the original trilogy, commented on how special effects should only serve as a means to an end, a way to create the environment in which to tell a story, but that the effects themselves should never become a substitute for good storytelling; and yet when it came time for him to make the prequels he did exactly that. He made it all about the FX, which is really sad, because the script had a lot of potential.
As fans we had such high expectations, it’s doubtful that any script could have ever lived up to them entirely; but that said, it is though George didn’t even try. The first, and most obvious expectation, was that we would finally get to see the Clone Wars. Instead, we only got to see the very beginning and the very end of the war, but most of the war itself was completely skipped over. (At least we are finally getting to see some of it in the form of the Clone Wars animated series…which I really like btw. It is so much better written and thought out then the movies were.) Also George wrote the prequels as though the original trilogy didn’t already exist. He wasted way too much time playing up the whole “mystery” aspect, as if we, the audience, didn’t already know that Palpatine was behind everything that was going on, or that he was going to become the Emperor, or that Anakin was going to turn to the Dark Side and become Darth Vader. The plots of the first two movies, could (and should) have easily been condensed down into a single movie; this would have then freed up the second movie to focus on the war itself. The third movie, while much better than the previous two, just seemed way too rushed, as did Anakin’s transition from an essentially good, albeit frustrated, young man at the beginning of the film, to a full blown villain, murdering children, his own pregnant wife and trying to kill his best friend. Another thing that really bothered me was the way Padmé was portrayed in that movie. In the other two movies, she was shown to be a strong, confident, take-charge young woman, who refused to stand by and allow herself to become a victim. But in Episode III, she spent virtually the entire movie as nothing but a victim, upset, crying, worried about what was happening but totally powerless to do anything about it.
I think a much better rewrite of this third episode would have been to have had Padmé convince Obi Wan to escort her, along with a number of other prominent Senators apposed to Palpatine’s ever increasing warmongering, to meet with Separatist leaders in a last ditch effort to broker peace. However they are betrayed and a battle ensues. During the battle Obi Wan finds himself forced to choose between protecting Padmé and saving a whole group of innocent civilians (or whatever); he chooses the latter. As a result Padmé is severely injured and on the verge of death. He gets her to a medical facility, but she is in a coma, and is put on life support with little hope of recovery. Anakin is furious at Obi Wan and blames him for not trying to save her. So between his grief over what has happened to Padmé, his anger at Obi Wan and his frustration over the Council’s refusal to grant him the title of Jedi Master, he is at his breaking point. It would be a this point that Palpatine comes to him and tells him the story about the Sith Lord that became so powerful that he could even prevent someone he cared about from dying, reveals himself as the Darth Sidious, and convinces Anakin to join him, to help him destroy the Jedi, and that then together they would be able to save Padmé. With a new sense of purpose, driven by desperation and rage, he leads the attack on the Jedi Temple, but then instead of returning to try and save Padmé, he, driven by the need for revenge, goes off to find and kill Obi Wan for what he did. Meanwhile Obi Wan has been trying to track down those responsible for the attack that injured Padmé, which finally leads him to their base on Mustafar. When he arrives he finds the Separatist leaders all dead and Anakin waiting for him. The rest of the movie from their battle on would play out pretty much as did on screen.
Really?!! You see, I'm just the exact opposite. I was a little younger though; I was only about 4 y/o when Star Wars (ANH) was released. To my knowledge, it was the very first movie I ever saw in a theater, and I was totally blown away by it! In fact, seeing Star Wars at such a young and impressionable age is most likely the reason why I am such a huge sci-fi fan to this day. I literally grew up with Star Wars, played with all the Star Wars action figures, and had all the books and movie posters, etc. It was a huge part of my childhood. So it should come as little surprise that I still consider the original Star Wars trilogy to be some of the greatest movies ever made. Granted I can now look back with the more cynical eyes of an adult and can see that they were not without their flaws, but that in no way diminishes my nostalgic love for them.
On a brief side note, I've always found it rather interesting that most fans seem to consider TESB to be the best of the original three movies, because it was actually my least favorite of the three. I mean, I always thought of that trilogy as one big story with three parts, and as such, ANH was the exciting beginning, the original, which introduced us to this amazing world and its characters. TRotJ was the epic, dramatic conclusion (and my favorite part) that resolved all the story treads of the previous two movies. But TESB for me always felt like...well...the boring middle part of a book that you have to wade though in order to get to the exciting stuff at the end. Don't get me wrong--there were (and are) parts of TESB that I really liked, and yet I guess it just wasn't as fun, fast-paced, and exciting, particularly to the young ADHD boy that I was back then.
So, what do I think of the prequel trilogy? Unlike some, I can’t say that I hated it, per say; but I was severely disappointed with it. It could have been SO much better if George had just bothered to put half as much effort into writing a decent script as he did into making it look “cool” with all of his new digital effects. I find it amusing how George, in I believe it was one of the commentaries for the first digitally remastered releases of the original trilogy, commented on how special effects should only serve as a means to an end, a way to create the environment in which to tell a story, but that the effects themselves should never become a substitute for good storytelling; and yet when it came time for him to make the prequels he did exactly that. He made it all about the FX, which is really sad, because the script had a lot of potential.
As fans we had such high expectations, it’s doubtful that any script could have ever lived up to them entirely; but that said, it is though George didn’t even try. The first, and most obvious expectation, was that we would finally get to see the Clone Wars. Instead, we only got to see the very beginning and the very end of the war, but most of the war itself was completely skipped over. (At least we are finally getting to see some of it in the form of the Clone Wars animated series…which I really like btw. It is so much better written and thought out then the movies were.) Also George wrote the prequels as though the original trilogy didn’t already exist. He wasted way too much time playing up the whole “mystery” aspect, as if we, the audience, didn’t already know that Palpatine was behind everything that was going on, or that he was going to become the Emperor, or that Anakin was going to turn to the Dark Side and become Darth Vader. The plots of the first two movies, could (and should) have easily been condensed down into a single movie; this would have then freed up the second movie to focus on the war itself. The third movie, while much better than the previous two, just seemed way too rushed, as did Anakin’s transition from an essentially good, albeit frustrated, young man at the beginning of the film, to a full blown villain, murdering children, his own pregnant wife and trying to kill his best friend. Another thing that really bothered me was the way Padmé was portrayed in that movie. In the other two movies, she was shown to be a strong, confident, take-charge young woman, who refused to stand by and allow herself to become a victim. But in Episode III, she spent virtually the entire movie as nothing but a victim, upset, crying, worried about what was happening but totally powerless to do anything about it.
I think a much better rewrite of this third episode would have been to have had Padmé convince Obi Wan to escort her, along with a number of other prominent Senators apposed to Palpatine’s ever increasing warmongering, to meet with Separatist leaders in a last ditch effort to broker peace. However they are betrayed and a battle ensues. During the battle Obi Wan finds himself forced to choose between protecting Padmé and saving a whole group of innocent civilians (or whatever); he chooses the latter. As a result Padmé is severely injured and on the verge of death. He gets her to a medical facility, but she is in a coma, and is put on life support with little hope of recovery. Anakin is furious at Obi Wan and blames him for not trying to save her. So between his grief over what has happened to Padmé, his anger at Obi Wan and his frustration over the Council’s refusal to grant him the title of Jedi Master, he is at his breaking point. It would be a this point that Palpatine comes to him and tells him the story about the Sith Lord that became so powerful that he could even prevent someone he cared about from dying, reveals himself as the Darth Sidious, and convinces Anakin to join him, to help him destroy the Jedi, and that then together they would be able to save Padmé. With a new sense of purpose, driven by desperation and rage, he leads the attack on the Jedi Temple, but then instead of returning to try and save Padmé, he, driven by the need for revenge, goes off to find and kill Obi Wan for what he did. Meanwhile Obi Wan has been trying to track down those responsible for the attack that injured Padmé, which finally leads him to their base on Mustafar. When he arrives he finds the Separatist leaders all dead and Anakin waiting for him. The rest of the movie from their battle on would play out pretty much as did on screen.
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