Anyone on this board dislike Star Wars?
- Thread starter heavylids
- Start date
Ewoks aren't canon.
After OT: liked
After PT: hated
Watching TCW: liking again. In fact, maybe more than ever.
Star Wars does best when it stops trying to ape other franchises (such as via political commentary, which it does really badly) and sticks to its strength: to be fairy tale/myth, to create powerful, enduring characters and plots that are as simple as a myth, to have a sense of epic scope and grandeur, and to mix the wildly exotic (such as the inhuman Jedi rules or the way nobody seems to think sentient robots or clones should be treated as equals with natural born beings) with the very familiar (characters whose personalities are very recognizable - the OT and TCW characters).
I also like it when Star Wars dares to dispense with assumptions that are common to Western culture and establish its own rules, such as taoism as an underpinning for its moral universe. This isn't a Western story of "good vs. evil" but rather an Eastern story about the wisdom of finding good in the balance of opposites.
That's one of the best descriptions of the difference that I've read in a while.
After PT: hated
Watching TCW: liking again. In fact, maybe more than ever.
Character depth has never been its strength. Compared with Star Trek, it's really lacking (especially in the villains).
Star Wars does best when it stops trying to ape other franchises (such as via political commentary, which it does really badly) and sticks to its strength: to be fairy tale/myth, to create powerful, enduring characters and plots that are as simple as a myth, to have a sense of epic scope and grandeur, and to mix the wildly exotic (such as the inhuman Jedi rules or the way nobody seems to think sentient robots or clones should be treated as equals with natural born beings) with the very familiar (characters whose personalities are very recognizable - the OT and TCW characters).
I also like it when Star Wars dares to dispense with assumptions that are common to Western culture and establish its own rules, such as taoism as an underpinning for its moral universe. This isn't a Western story of "good vs. evil" but rather an Eastern story about the wisdom of finding good in the balance of opposites.
That's one of the best descriptions of the difference that I've read in a while.
What do you find to be so ridiculous? I've never even see Battle LA.
I've always like the original trilogy. I never liked the prequel trilogy (too many reasons to go into here) and perhaps due to my dislike of the prequels that sort of caused me to lose appetite for the "expanded universe" element of Star Wars - the novels, the comics, Clone Wars, etc.
I'll still watch the original trilogy (though I prefer the original theatrical versions rather than the fast-becoming-dated-looking "special editions") but when the prequels come on TV, I usually give them a pass.
I am curious to see what happens with Duke Nukem Forever*, er, the Star Wars live-action series, so I'll give that a chance.
Alex
* Look it up on Wikipedia if you don't know what I'm referencing!
I'll still watch the original trilogy (though I prefer the original theatrical versions rather than the fast-becoming-dated-looking "special editions") but when the prequels come on TV, I usually give them a pass.
I am curious to see what happens with Duke Nukem Forever*, er, the Star Wars live-action series, so I'll give that a chance.
Alex
* Look it up on Wikipedia if you don't know what I'm referencing!
I also prefer the original versions of the movies. George Lucas had a serious lapse in judgment when he decided to "enhance" his movies. I think that once something is created and done, don't fuck with it. I hate the remastered TOS and think it was a real bad idea. But I think George Lucas is incredibly money hungry, and that may have motivated him to do all these remastered versions with added content because he knew all the die-hard Star Wars fans would buy anything that was released. That is why there are so many different box sets of Star Wars movies.
I can't dislike Star Wars. I dislike certain Star Wars movies and EU stories, but I like the core concept of Star Wars and always have.
Ranking the movies is a little difficult because I think there's two ways of looking at them: whether they work as movies (i.e. just the merits of them as seen in a vaccuum) and whether they work as Star Wars movies (i.e. in the context of the series and fictional universe as a whole). Now, from both perspectives it's easy to rank the top three like so:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope (a.k.a. the original)
3. Return of the Jedi
But when it comes to the prequels, it's different. Thinking back on it, I reckon that if you were to view each prequel movie by itself and judge it on its own merits, the best one would be The Phantom Menace. Its plot is the most coherent and straightforward of the three, the heroes are sympathetic and the villains unsympathetic, and personally I don't really find Jar Jar Binks any more or less annoying than the two brownies in Willow. Revenge of the Sith would be the next-best: it has some good dramatic stuff happen but just does them badly, and really fails to make me care about any of the characters. Attack of the Clones would be the worst: the plot is an incoherent mess, and the romantic subplot is done awfully and goes on and on far too long.
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
BUT, if you were to judge them specifically as Star Wars movies, then I'd have to say Attack of the Clones is the best of those three. Sure, it's an incoherent mess, but every single part of it is actually relevant to the saga as a whole. All of it moves the pieces of the larger story forward in one way or the other, and it's only really the romantic subplot that's handled badly. Revenge of the Sith is next: its story also incorporates very important parts of the saga, and although it does them badly at least they're there. And, judged as a Star Wars movie, The Phantom Menace is unquestionably the worst. There are only two plot points in the entire movie which are relevant to the saga as a whole: Anakin leaving Tatooine & joining the Jedi Order, and Palpatine becoming Chancellor of the Republic. The former could've been incorporated into any story (it even causes a large detour of the plot in TPM, with the hyperdrive parts and the podrace), and the latter could have just been described in the opening crawl and nobody would've cared. It's fine as a kid-friendly space fantasy adventure movie, but as a Star Wars movie there's just too much extraneous stuff going on.
4. Attack of the Clones
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. The Phantom Menace
Ranking the movies is a little difficult because I think there's two ways of looking at them: whether they work as movies (i.e. just the merits of them as seen in a vaccuum) and whether they work as Star Wars movies (i.e. in the context of the series and fictional universe as a whole). Now, from both perspectives it's easy to rank the top three like so:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope (a.k.a. the original)
3. Return of the Jedi
But when it comes to the prequels, it's different. Thinking back on it, I reckon that if you were to view each prequel movie by itself and judge it on its own merits, the best one would be The Phantom Menace. Its plot is the most coherent and straightforward of the three, the heroes are sympathetic and the villains unsympathetic, and personally I don't really find Jar Jar Binks any more or less annoying than the two brownies in Willow. Revenge of the Sith would be the next-best: it has some good dramatic stuff happen but just does them badly, and really fails to make me care about any of the characters. Attack of the Clones would be the worst: the plot is an incoherent mess, and the romantic subplot is done awfully and goes on and on far too long.
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
BUT, if you were to judge them specifically as Star Wars movies, then I'd have to say Attack of the Clones is the best of those three. Sure, it's an incoherent mess, but every single part of it is actually relevant to the saga as a whole. All of it moves the pieces of the larger story forward in one way or the other, and it's only really the romantic subplot that's handled badly. Revenge of the Sith is next: its story also incorporates very important parts of the saga, and although it does them badly at least they're there. And, judged as a Star Wars movie, The Phantom Menace is unquestionably the worst. There are only two plot points in the entire movie which are relevant to the saga as a whole: Anakin leaving Tatooine & joining the Jedi Order, and Palpatine becoming Chancellor of the Republic. The former could've been incorporated into any story (it even causes a large detour of the plot in TPM, with the hyperdrive parts and the podrace), and the latter could have just been described in the opening crawl and nobody would've cared. It's fine as a kid-friendly space fantasy adventure movie, but as a Star Wars movie there's just too much extraneous stuff going on.
4. Attack of the Clones
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. The Phantom Menace
The original, non-SE trilogy was released a few years back as a bonus disc for the regular DVDs. It was kind of a limited edition. Unfortunately, the quality of the prints they use is the same as the old laserdiscs-no converting to anamorphic DVD quality.
Funny thing is, the original 1997 versions of the Special Editions have never been released on DVD-that's the version that still has the original Emperor, the crappier Jabba, Sebastian Shaw, and Luke screaming.
Funny thing is, the original 1997 versions of the Special Editions have never been released on DVD-that's the version that still has the original Emperor, the crappier Jabba, Sebastian Shaw, and Luke screaming.
I like both the OT and PT equally. I love star wars! I had all the toys as a kid and played a lot of SW video games. KOTOR 1 and 2 are still great and stand the test of time when compared to modern games. I enjoy some of the EU, primarily Tales of the Jedi. In some ways I like it more than Star Trek because its not as pretentious as Trek can sometimes get.
Those weren't really special editions, they were remastered versions of the originals with some framing differences. And they were released in widescreen and full screen on tape.
^I think you mean the 1994/1995 VHS release, the one that was digitally remastered but with no additions, save an interview with George Lucas & Leonard Maltin.
I mean the 1997 Special Editions which were released theatrically, and had one or two VHS releases. Those aren't available officially in DVD form, since the DVDs had further tampering with the original film (Although they did edit out Luke's scream in ESB, which was one of the 1997-SE changes).
One thing I never got were the dialogue changes Lucas did for the SEs. "You're lucky you don't taste very good" is a fun line, better than "You were lucky to get out of there!" Plus we went from the more Hanish "It's alright-Trust me!" to "It's alright I can see a lot better!"
Thankfully Spielberg/Lucas exercised restraint on the Indiana Jones DVDs-apart from some minor restoration work and one of Willy's lines being altered in Temple of Doom, it's all the same.
I mean the 1997 Special Editions which were released theatrically, and had one or two VHS releases. Those aren't available officially in DVD form, since the DVDs had further tampering with the original film (Although they did edit out Luke's scream in ESB, which was one of the 1997-SE changes).
One thing I never got were the dialogue changes Lucas did for the SEs. "You're lucky you don't taste very good" is a fun line, better than "You were lucky to get out of there!" Plus we went from the more Hanish "It's alright-Trust me!" to "It's alright I can see a lot better!"
Thankfully Spielberg/Lucas exercised restraint on the Indiana Jones DVDs-apart from some minor restoration work and one of Willy's lines being altered in Temple of Doom, it's all the same.
I have the original SE DVDs so yes they were released.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases#Star_Wars_DVD_Box_Set
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