Which problem are you referring to?
Anyone else disturbed by La Forges sexual harrasment of Leah Brahms?
- Thread starter Crazyewok
- Start date
""I can certainly see the narrative merits of this storyline, but to me it's still covering up rather than adressing the problem to begin with."""
This one
This one
It's not a bad storyline and would follow on really well, but it requires viewers to see all the episodes to get the complete picture. I've got nothing against serialised storytelling, but each episode still needs to be a single contained entity; Booby Trap & Galaxy's Child are two episodes from two separate seasons which, as this thread shows, can cause problems if you've only seen one without the other. If you changed the ending of Galaxy's Child so that Geordi does learn the complete lesson, then people wouldn't potentialy miss out later down the line.
I'm not saying Trek should always be trying to teach lessons, but it shouldn't be normalising negative attitudes either.
I'd have loved to have seen Leah and Guinan together at the end of the episode. Guninan had a great part in both episodes and tried to give Geordi some great advice, it would have been interesting to see if/how they both compared notes.
Leah: So, does Geordi usually bomb out with the ladies?
Guinin: Always.
Guinin: Always.
One interesting thing here is the level of technology involved, and I do think the writers were trying to show how the 24th century had still not figured out how the protocols should be, both with the creation itself, and reaction to the creations.
The holodeck/computer creates a person that Georgie accidentally imbued with unexpected personality, but innocently created. It's possible for a male or female to become attracted to this facsimile. A reasonable possibility for success and excitement results and when Brahman comes aboard, Geordie tries his luck.
The computer was somewhat accurate but doesn't take her opinions of Geordie's engine tinkering into account, nor did it find it important to tell him she was married because it had no inkling about human attraction in that context.
The idea that Geordie would continue to "hound" Brahms even if she weren't married is ridiculous. Geordie's attempts, while awkward, were still within the bounds of normal human "dating", and while he may have felt a lack of connection, there wasn't an outright denial of his interest. If she wasn't married, this would likely have happened at the dinner, the same time she revealed she was in fact married, but I feel the Writer's were suggesting the only reason she wasn't interested is because she was married. So in effect, the computer probably got the personality/attraction right, it just had bad timing /lack of information.
Of course ultimately, the show was not serialized, and they wouldn't have had regular dating on it, so they had to find a way to keep her off the ship.
RAMA
The holodeck/computer creates a person that Georgie accidentally imbued with unexpected personality, but innocently created. It's possible for a male or female to become attracted to this facsimile. A reasonable possibility for success and excitement results and when Brahman comes aboard, Geordie tries his luck.
The computer was somewhat accurate but doesn't take her opinions of Geordie's engine tinkering into account, nor did it find it important to tell him she was married because it had no inkling about human attraction in that context.
The idea that Geordie would continue to "hound" Brahms even if she weren't married is ridiculous. Geordie's attempts, while awkward, were still within the bounds of normal human "dating", and while he may have felt a lack of connection, there wasn't an outright denial of his interest. If she wasn't married, this would likely have happened at the dinner, the same time she revealed she was in fact married, but I feel the Writer's were suggesting the only reason she wasn't interested is because she was married. So in effect, the computer probably got the personality/attraction right, it just had bad timing /lack of information.
Of course ultimately, the show was not serialized, and they wouldn't have had regular dating on it, so they had to find a way to keep her off the ship.
RAMA
Just occured to me, but you'd think that after Moriarty he'd be a lot more careful. Geordi really didn't learn his lessons, did he....
Using a peep hole or camera--as with the case of a local tanning salon here--is certainly against the law if used without knowledge in most US states.
RAMA
RAMA
It's a subtle difference, that point where it was information exchange turning into attraction. Far more subtle than a computer creating an evil genius.
Geordi's screw up that caused Moriarty was so bad, and potentially so fatal for the entire ship, he should have had holodeck privileges revoked for 10 years, only to be used for official StarFleet operations and only under direct supervision.
I keep forgetting that the Holodeck was new even to starfleet in Season 1...
Indeed, banning LaForge would only be helpful in the sense that his supposed special privileges as Chief Engineer would not come to play the next time somebody fatefully misspoke.
What? No, it wasn't. It was better in S1 than what our heroes were accustomed to - they clearly had a point of comparison. And we later learn that kids were already watching holoentertainment back when the heroes were those kids.
The holodeck is a device designed to please the user, and it bends over backwards trying to achieve this. It isn't allowed to stop and ask for permission, because that would defeat the attempt at pleasing. Inevitably, stuff will happen. And whenever the holodecks get better (that is, all the time, every day), something new becomes possible and then will happen. What our users may have in place are general guidelines and coarse limitations; what they won't have is knowledge of what the holodeck is actually doing in order to work within said limits.
Timo Saloniemi
[QUOTE="Timo, post: 12002440, member: 2277"What? No, it wasn't. It was better in S1 than what our heroes were accustomed to - they clearly had a point of comparison. And we later learn that kids were already watching holoentertainment back when the heroes were those kids.[/QUOTE]
Must have misremembered it, has been a while since I saw The Big Goodbye.
Must have misremembered it, has been a while since I saw The Big Goodbye.
There are layers to this thing, including what was originally planned for early TNG, what was reshuffled, and what we actually got.
In "Encounter at Farpoint", Riker is impressed by the quality of the holodeck simulation, not its existence, and nobody says the technology as such would be new, but its state of the art clearly is something Riker has not experienced before. We don't see humanoid characters simulated yet.
In "Code of Honor", the primitives of Ligon II are impressed by the holodecks, but the heroes do not indicate the facilities would be new. We see a humanlike character being simulated, although he (?) is mute.
In "The Big Goodbye", Picard is impressed at how nicely the holodeck recreates his favorite literary character Dixon Hill, and it's made clear this is the first time he runs the Dixon Hill program. This may also have been intended to describe the first time Picard enters the holodeck of his ships, but such a thing is not made explicit in the episode. Furthermore, this episode was intended to take place after "11001001" where an upgrade is performed on the system, but actually takes place later in the season. The rewriting thus introduces a "malfunction" that creates the weird circumstances of the holoadventure, instead of referring to the "upgrade".
When "11001001" does play out, an upgrade is explicated, and Riker furthermore explicates what is new about it: the character of Minuet has gained realistic smell, touch and feel, while the holocharacters Riker already has experience on apparently were lacking in those.
Later seasons do not refer back to the holodecks as having been a new thing. And then along comes VOY with references to the Flotter holoprogram that Janeway already enjoyed in her youth. This is the first time the writers of live-action Trek really commit to the idea that holodecks were not new in early TNG, but it doesn't contradict anything.
Of course, holodecks were already seen in TAS "Practical Joker", and they weren't indicated to be new there, either... For all we know, something of the sort was already available to Archer and friends in the 22nd century, but they were explicit that such things were not available aboard their ship, or other Earth ships, in "Unexpected". We don't have a date for when holosimulations appeared on Earth - might have been back in 1952 in that alternate reality of theirs for all we know!
Timo Saloniemi
In "Encounter at Farpoint", Riker is impressed by the quality of the holodeck simulation, not its existence, and nobody says the technology as such would be new, but its state of the art clearly is something Riker has not experienced before. We don't see humanoid characters simulated yet.
In "Code of Honor", the primitives of Ligon II are impressed by the holodecks, but the heroes do not indicate the facilities would be new. We see a humanlike character being simulated, although he (?) is mute.
In "The Big Goodbye", Picard is impressed at how nicely the holodeck recreates his favorite literary character Dixon Hill, and it's made clear this is the first time he runs the Dixon Hill program. This may also have been intended to describe the first time Picard enters the holodeck of his ships, but such a thing is not made explicit in the episode. Furthermore, this episode was intended to take place after "11001001" where an upgrade is performed on the system, but actually takes place later in the season. The rewriting thus introduces a "malfunction" that creates the weird circumstances of the holoadventure, instead of referring to the "upgrade".
When "11001001" does play out, an upgrade is explicated, and Riker furthermore explicates what is new about it: the character of Minuet has gained realistic smell, touch and feel, while the holocharacters Riker already has experience on apparently were lacking in those.
Later seasons do not refer back to the holodecks as having been a new thing. And then along comes VOY with references to the Flotter holoprogram that Janeway already enjoyed in her youth. This is the first time the writers of live-action Trek really commit to the idea that holodecks were not new in early TNG, but it doesn't contradict anything.
Of course, holodecks were already seen in TAS "Practical Joker", and they weren't indicated to be new there, either... For all we know, something of the sort was already available to Archer and friends in the 22nd century, but they were explicit that such things were not available aboard their ship, or other Earth ships, in "Unexpected". We don't have a date for when holosimulations appeared on Earth - might have been back in 1952 in that alternate reality of theirs for all we know!
Timo Saloniemi
you need to give credit to the computer program that assisted with your research? why?
RIP AND GIDEON!! haha.
Because if Holobrahms based on real Brahms comes up with a solution, then Geordi didn't, so he shouldn't take the credit.
I think Geordi may have acted inappropriately but if Starfleet had to review the situation they'd probably just give him a slap on the wrist. I'm glad Leah and Geordi worked the situation out in the end and came to a mutual understanding of each other. Geordi's a pretty decent guy, he's not space 4chan or something.
Weird that Geordi believed something might happen with the real Leah after getting along so well with her hologram.
He came off as desperate and pushing himself on her.
He came off as desperate and pushing himself on her.