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Anyone else disturbed by La Forges sexual harrasment of Leah Brahms?

USS Triumphant said:
I hope you're not implying that the sexuality of her holodeck copy would be determined more-or-less randomly based on a dice roll against the percentage of the population that is gay. Because while that would make for some pretty amusing holodeck shenanigans, I'm pretty sure that working from that profile Starfleet took of her, it can do better than LGBTQIA random-select. ;)
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Not so much a random select, as in the future the computer extrapolates that she flirts with people she likes, somehow based on her presentations, but her sexuality isn't recorded. Having to fill in the gaps, statistically most people are straight, but the odds were against the computer on this one.
 
I really can't see a reason why her sexuality *wouldn't* be recorded along with everything else in the personality inventory, because it isn't like it would be used to track down and exterminate people in the enlightened 24th century, like it might be now. It would just be another part of who she is.

But okay, for the purposes of the conversation, I'll allow it. I still think bi would be a better fit, though. (Personally, I'm of the opinion that sexuality is really a spectrum, anyway, and that while most people may express strongly toward one end or the other, we're really ALL bi to some degree. :) )
 
USS Triumphant said:
I really can't see a reason why her sexuality *wouldn't* be recorded along with everything else in the personality inventory,
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The holo-Brahms is based on her subspace design logs. Her work. Her sexuality is not listed for the same reason her relationship status isn't. The computer denied access to her personal logs, which is where you're more likely to learn her preferences and status.
 
USS Triumphant said:
I really can't see a reason why her sexuality *wouldn't* be recorded along with everything else in the personality inventory, because it isn't like it would be used to track down and exterminate people in the enlightened 24th century, like it might be now. It would just be another part of who she is.
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But the personality inventory would have been gleaned from her papers and presentations at an academic conference, so there was no specific need to record her sexuality as it wasn't relevant. The flirting could have been presumed from her tone and manner when presenting?
 
Ah. It seems I need to rewatch this episode: my recollection was that there was a thorough Starfleet personality inventory on file for her (and by extension, that those being on file for people attached to Starfleet was how the holodeck was able to make fairly accurate duplicates of crewpeople on other occasions, too). Still seems more reasonable to me than the idea that the computer would have just made crap up about a real, living person - but if that's what the episode says, it's what it says.

I have a (bad?) tendency to edit my entertainment in my head, on the fly, to make it make more sense and work better for me. ;)
 
USS Triumphant said:
Ah. It seems I need to rewatch this episode: my recollection was that there was a thorough Starfleet personality inventory on file for her (and by extension, that those being on file for people attached to Starfleet was how the holodeck was able to make fairly accurate duplicates of crewpeople on other occasions, too). Still seems more reasonable to me than the idea that the computer would have just made crap up about a real, living person - but if that's what the episode says, it's what it says.

I have a (bad?) tendency to edit my entertainment in my head, on the fly, to make it make more sense and work better for me. ;)
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I agree it is difficult to see how the computer would create a holoprogram that flirts based just on someone's work, but that's holodecks for you. Wouldn't surprise me if they were designed with built in flirting as part of the operating system...
 
Crazyewok said:
I think La forges treatment was stalker ish and would in most work places be considered sexual harrasment.

The holodeck program itself was shocking but watching him perv over her and stalking her via her personal data? Yuk!

And at the end she appologised to him!

Hell he should of bern given a repramand and sent on a starfleet sexual harrasment course!
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The episode where La Forge meets the real Leah Brahms makes me really uncomfortable. Picard even seems uncomfortable in the beginning where he's talking to Geordi.

Geordi is a bit psychologically abusive towards her. He has all the expectations and fantasies before she arrives, then when he finds out she married, he goes from being a sad puppy to a dick.

Then, when she discovers his hollow program, and is (understandably) upset, he gets angry, denies the implications she's drawn(even though he admitted it to Barclay in another episode), he blames her, makes her to feel guilty, and yeah: She ends up apologizing to him!

I'd like to think she was just trying to "smooth out" an awkward situation so they could get their work done, and then never return to his engine room...but they ended up married in All Good Things.
 
Prax said:
Picard even seems uncomfortable in the beginning where he's talking to Geordi.
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One of the highlights of the whole episode for me is Guinan's "you're not fooling me, you're only fooling yourself" face when he tries to justify being excited to meet her.

Prax said:
but they ended up married in All Good Things.
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I'm always confused by All Good Things..., was it meant to be the actual future, a possible future, or just one of Q's games? We only know what Q tells us, and he's hardly reliable.
 
Crazyewok said:
"Im with you every day geordi. Every time you look at this engine your looking at me. Every time you touch it its me"
That along with him kissing the holodeck implies it.
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While that might sound suggestive in another context, I never got the feeling that in the context of the episode itself, it was a holographic invitation to nookie. I think you're reading a little too in between the lines here.
In all the times I've seen that episode, I never came to the conclusion that you have. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong but I'm just not seeing it here. Yes, it's clear that Laforge had feelings for the real Brahms. That doesn't mean that he took the next step to have relations with a holographic representation of her.
 
MadeIndescribable said:
I'm always confused by All Good Things..., was it meant to be the actual future, a possible future, or just one of Q's games? We only know what Q tells us, and he's hardly reliable.
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I always considered it to be one possible future. Q seemed sincere in this episode but who really knows
 
MadeIndescribable said:
I agree it is difficult to see how the computer would create a holoprogram that flirts based just on someone's work, but that's holodecks for you. Wouldn't surprise me if they were designed with built in flirting as part of the operating system...
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If we were to assume the computer has Geordi's psych profile on record, maybe it assumed that having HoloBrahms get flirty with him would make him more efficient.

And the results speak for themselves. :p
 
I think he really went to the future. Q really took him to the past in "Tapestry."
 
Prax said:
I think he really went to the future. Q really took him to the past in "Tapestry."
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I tend to agree. However, that's just our opinion, and I think we can be pretty sure he did *not* really take them to Sherwood Forest. So... still open to interpretation.
 
USS Triumphant said:
I tend to agree. However, that's just our opinion, and I think we can be pretty sure he did *not* really take them to Sherwood Forest. So... still open to interpretation.
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Maybe he did? Q can create reality... alter what is there, manifest anything into reality at a whim.. so to say he did not take them there may not be all that accurate. He did... after he created the pocket universe where it actually existed. Just because it ceases to exist later on does not mean that it wasn't real.
 
JasonJ said:
Maybe he did? Q can create reality... alter what is there, manifest anything into reality at a whim.. so to say he did not take them there may not be all that accurate. He did... after he created the pocket universe where it actually existed. Just because it ceases to exist later on does not mean that it wasn't real.
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It's at this point that we get into what may as well be a semantical difference between Q creating a pocket universe, and a holodeck scenario. What you're saying is valid, though, and I should revise my statement to "I think we can be pretty sure he did *not* really take them to the same Sherwood Forest that existed in the past of their Earth's England". Point is, it was a simulation - whether it was achieved with a god's ability to simulate it or not isn't really relevant. And the same applies for the seeming events of "Tapestry" and "All Good Things..." - whether or not Q actually transported Picard to points along his own timeline in what to Picard is the "real" universe, or actually created pocket universes to take Picard to, OR, simply put the experiences directly into Picard's brain (what a lazy Q would do, and therefore probably my choice, at least for "Tapestry" ;) ), is pretty much impossible to determine.

As an aside, I say "at least for 'Tapestry'" because I got the distinct impression that what was happening in "All Good Things..." was NOT our Q, but the Continuum, and our Q was interfering in order to save humanity. But even that is totally opinion, so... :D
 
Tosk said:
The computer based simul-Brahms on her logs. Assuming she never wrote a log while in a bad mood, why would the computer think she was anything but friendly? Leah has never met Geordi before, and she came into the situation mad about the situation. She's quite friendly once she gets to know him and they sort out their little misunderstanding.
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Sure. But I'm not making any claims that the 'puter deliberately set Geordi up or something. Just what LaForge got on the transporter pad didn't square with the duplicate that was on the 'deck. Brahms admits that she herself is a difficult person to know.
 
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