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Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

I will carefully test the hypothesis that the episodes are getting better by reviewing...

"Scientific Method"

This might be the best Trek horror episode I've ever scene. It totally blows away the TNG one where the crew's being experimented on (I forget the name) because it's much better realized. That said, there are a few possible goofs in it.

First, I love the set-up, with some more slice of life on Voyager stuff. Torres bickering with Seven, Torres jumping Paris at her work-station, Tuvok walking in on them...good stuff.

Janeway's massage scene was priceless. I know some members of this forum wish the Doctor hadn't reminded her to change before heading to the bridge.

Everything from the moment Seven is able to see the aliens is incredible. That's some really creepy stuff. About as disturbing as parts of Jacob's Ladder.

Seven being given special vision to see the aliens might be derivative of They Live, but it was so well-realized that it doesn't matter. I'm truly starting to warm up to the character.

Frazzled Janeway was great. For once I have something nice to say about the hair stylists, as they let her hair get that stringy look that helped paint the picture of a woman under great stress. I loved the scene with her and Tuvok. His "shall I have them flogged as well?" was great. and his offer to join her in a bottle of wine showed the depths of his friendship and support for her.

Now, what I consider to be some of the flaws of the episode...

Of course, there's the whole "that's not how DNA works" thing, but we'll forget about that for now. At least no one turned into a lemur. Or a lizard.

When Seven zapped that one alien, how come she didn't zap the other two? And, since the jig was up, why not just go around zapping all the aliens right then?

Why didn't the aliens do something nasty to Seven, since she was the only one who could see them? (Though there might have been dialog about her Borg nanoprobes that I missed.)

Here's my big beef: I think Janeway should have gone Archer on that one alien and taken her to the airlock. Seriously. Her crew was directly in harm's way, and that alien could have stopped it. I'm not sure that waiting until one of her crew had died and then putting the ship into a situation where she had a 95% chance of a 100% mortality rate was the right call.

If I'd have been captain, I would have taken much more vigorous action off the bat. Particularly if I hadn't slept for four days.

Then it's back to some funny stuff. I loved the T/P date, and their banter about the "experiment." Cute. They're making a better couple as they get further into this.

Also, unintentionally hilarious, was the early scene where Chakotay apologizes for putting Janeway to sleep on the bridge. It's hysterical because I had just said, "Good God, he sounds even more lethargic than usual today!"
 
SEVEN: .... Don't move. If your people attempt to incapacitate me I will kill you.
ALZEN: I believe you. What do you intend to do now?
SEVEN: You will come with me to speak to the Captain. I am certain she will have questions for you.

After Tuvok's interference, Seven couldn't incapacitate all the aliens before they started killing the crew, so she didn't try. She needed a hostage and 1 was sufficient.

Even if Janeway's headache prevented her from seeing this line of logic, Tuvok spelled it out for her.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mEwbZ6u_EE

SEVEN: We have the ability to make them visible. If we could modify enough sensors, we could resist them.
TUVOK: They are capable of manipulating our DNA. A direct conflict would be inadvisable.
CREWMAN [OC]: Bridge to Doctor. Medical emergency.

But once the aliens started killing her people, Janeway did as Picard did. All for one, and one for all!

JANEWAY: This ends right now. (To the helmsman)You're relieved.
TUVOK: Captain, what are you doing?
JANEWAY: I'm running a little experiment of my own. Red Alert!
SEVEN: Captain, one of the aliens has entered the bridge.
JANEWAY: Understood.
TUVOK: We're less than a million kilometers from the pulsars. We must change course to avoid being caught in their gravity.
JANEWAY: No! Keep going.
TUVOK: This is a far more reckless course of action than I've come to expect from you, Captain.
JANEWAY: It certainly is.
TUVOK: Hull stresses at thirty teradynes and rising.
KIM: I'm transferring more power to the structural integrity field, but I don't know how long it can hold.
TAKAR: What do you hope to accomplish by this?
JANEWAY: Flying into a binary pulsar? It seems like I'm trying to crush this ship like a tin can.
TAKAR: It's more likely that you're trying to intimidate us.
JANEWAY: You're welcome to stick around and find out.

I just love the end of that scene.

KIM: I don't believe it. We're alive.
JANEWAY: I never realized you thought of me as reckless, Tuvok.
TUVOK: A poor choice of words. It was clearly an understatement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8-917vo9C8

I just love those two! :vulcan:

And I love this ep! :guffaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1sU9IaB3t8
 
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Why didn't the aliens do something nasty to Seven, since she was the only one who could see them? (Though there might have been dialog about her Borg nanoprobes that I missed.)

There is a scene in which one of the aliens uses one of their medical experiment devices on Seven in the turbolift. She mentions this to the doctor, and then it is simply forgotten for the rest of the episode. Presumably this means it didn’t work on Seven, though I recall no dialog mentioning this fact, let alone explaining why. A fanwank will have to suffice, and Borg nanoprobes sound like as good a mechanism as any.

BTW, while watching the ep, a thought occurred to me at this point:
TUVOK: Move away from the console.
SEVEN: As I told you, I am conducting repairs.
TUVOK: You're attempting to deceive me. Why?
SEVEN: I can't explain what I'm doing but you must allow me to continue.
My immediate reaction was that Seven could have explained it to Tuvok without telling the aliens what she was doing. Imagine:

TUVOK: Move away from the console.
SEVEN: As I told you, I am conducting repairs.
TUVOK: You're attempting to deceive me. Why?
SEVEN: I am unaccustomed to this verbal communication. It is inefficient. As a Borg it was unnecessary because we shared our thoughts. Since you believe I am attempting to deceive you, I suggest a mind meld. This should assure you that I am not deceiving you.

Would that have done the trick?
 
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^ Maybe.

Also, my wife caught an inconsistency. At first, the Doc is hiding in the holodeck and summons Seven there. After that, he's out in the ship, with no explanation of how he got "back."
 
Janeway's massage scene was priceless. I know some members of this forum wish the Doctor hadn't reminded her to change before heading to the bridge.

Ah, you know some of us so well! ;)


Frazzled Janeway was great. For once I have something nice to say about the hair stylists, as they let her hair get that stringy look that helped paint the picture of a woman under great stress. I loved the scene with her and Tuvok. His "shall I have them flogged as well?" was great. and his offer to join her in a bottle of wine showed the depths of his friendship and support for her.

I love any interaction between Janeway and Tuvok. I love their friendship.

I also loved Kate's acting in this episode. She's always been a sublime actress, but in this episode even watching Janeway put me on edge. Great stuff.

I think Janeway didn't go all crazy at the beginning because of her restrain. The alien herself said they were surprised she lasted this long. Janeway is foremost a scientist, so I think she was waiting out for another kind of solution, but when she finally cracked she decided to go all 'gung-ho' and be reckless. It was a great episode!
 
^ Maybe.

Also, my wife caught an inconsistency. At first, the Doc is hiding in the holodeck and summons Seven there. After that, he's out in the ship, with no explanation of how he got "back."

Wasn't this after everyone knew there were aliens on board? He didn't need to hide after that.
 
Janeway is answerable to absolutely nobody. She isn’t a captain, she’s an autocrat. There isn’t even a ship’s doctor who can relieve her on medical grounds. (I wonder what would happen if the EMH tried to assert such authority, but my guess is Janeway would simply deactivate him or alter his programming.)

I didn’t have to wait long for an answer.

In the teaser of Year of Hell, Part II, she demands trioxin from the doctor. He demurs, saying the triox could damage her and she needs proper treatment, “Doctor’s orders.” She barks at him, “Captain’s orders! Trioxin, now!” He gives in and sarcastically comments, “I'm only the Chief Medical Officer. What do I know?”

I don’t have a copy of Starfleet’s regulations to refer to, but nonetheless I’m pretty sure they make the CMO the legitimate authority on this issue.

I have heard that one of the complaints about Voyager is inconsistency in the writing of Janeway’s character, but I’m finding her to be very consistent and predictable.

She is, as I said earlier, an autocrat. She believes — and she’s backed up by the writers on this point — that she’s always right, and that makes her the last word on everything. All other authorities, such as the CMO’s authority over medical matters and the B’omar’s authority over the passage of alien vessels into their space, is subordinate to the “divine right of kings” authority that follows from her infallibility.
 
It starts on "Day One," so it looks like we're in for a...

"Year of Hell, Part One"


Wow. That's about all I can say right now. What an episode.

First, though, I need someone to help me. I recall Kes warning them about the Krenim and chroniton torpedoes in "Before and After." In particular, she knew the phase variance of the "struck" torpedo. How come nobody remembers that? Or did that not happen in the "real" timeline? I'm a little confused.

Second, I've got a potential logic problem. Voyager runs into Krenim on stardate 51whatever because Kes threw them 9,500 light years ahead. In the "Before and After" timeline, it would have taken them ten more years to get to this part of space, by which time Kes would be dead.

Solution: "Before and After" Voyager found another way to get pushed along, I guess. Is there something else?

I'm not so joyless and pedantic that I let these questions ruin the episode for me, but I'd like to know if anyone else has thought along these lines.

Now, down to the episode: it's great. The Krenim are good enemies, and Annorax seems to know something nobody else does. Neat to see the ship getting battered like that.

I was surprised that Janeway and Torres survived part one--I thought for sure the broken teacup at the end of act II(?) foreshadowed one or both of them buying it. I can see why they kept Janeway alive, though: this is really her episode.

Can I take a minute to say how much I love her new hairstyle? It's great. Much, much better than what she had. So the hair stylists got something right.

The standout scene of the episode for me was blind Tuvok shaving himself. Just the way he did it said so much about his pride and determination without having to say a word. Brilliant stuff. And he and Seven worked well together. It's a totally different dynamic than Kes/Tuvok, since there's a bit of master/student as well as (presumably) her guilt about causing his blindness. Again, nothing's said, but it's beautifully done. And just the look on his face when he took his station for the last battle of the episode--powerful stuff.

Even though something in me recoils every time Neelix says "Mr. Vulcan" (identifying someone primarily by their race/ethnicity just runs against everything I believe in), I appreciated his more distant (than Seven's) friendship and support of Tuvok.

I'm not totally sure about the end, or the logic of sending some of the crew away while keeping a skeleton crew on board. If you're going to ditch the ship, ditch it, but if you're going to stay, I wouldn't think there would be too many superfluous crew members left, particularly with so many systems down. But I can live with it.

I'm looking forward to the conclusion. Since we only got about 2.5 months in part one, I'm guessing we've got a lot to go through.

And, Captrek, the captain has to be something of an autocrat, since ultimately the buck stops with her. It's her responsibility.
 
It starts on "Day One," so it looks like we're in for a...

"Year of Hell, Part One"


Wow. That's about all I can say right now. What an episode.

First, though, I need someone to help me. I recall Kes warning them about the Krenim and chroniton torpedoes in "Before and After." In particular, she knew the phase variance of the "struck" torpedo. How come nobody remembers that? Or did that not happen in the "real" timeline? I'm a little confused.

Second, I've got a potential logic problem. Voyager runs into Krenim on stardate 51whatever because Kes threw them 9,500 light years ahead. In the "Before and After" timeline, it would have taken them ten more years to get to this part of space, by which time Kes would be dead.

Solution: "Before and After" Voyager found another way to get pushed along, I guess. Is there something else?

I'm not so joyless and pedantic that I let these questions ruin the episode for me, but I'd like to know if anyone else has thought along these lines.

Now, down to the episode: it's great. The Krenim are good enemies, and Annorax seems to know something nobody else does. Neat to see the ship getting battered like that.

I was surprised that Janeway and Torres survived part one--I thought for sure the broken teacup at the end of act II(?) foreshadowed one or both of them buying it. I can see why they kept Janeway alive, though: this is really her episode.

Can I take a minute to say how much I love her new hairstyle? It's great. Much, much better than what she had. So the hair stylists got something right.

The standout scene of the episode for me was blind Tuvok shaving himself. Just the way he did it said so much about his pride and determination without having to say a word. Brilliant stuff. And he and Seven worked well together. It's a totally different dynamic than Kes/Tuvok, since there's a bit of master/student as well as (presumably) her guilt about causing his blindness. Again, nothing's said, but it's beautifully done. And just the look on his face when he took his station for the last battle of the episode--powerful stuff.

Even though something in me recoils every time Neelix says "Mr. Vulcan" (identifying someone primarily by their race/ethnicity just runs against everything I believe in), I appreciated his more distant (than Seven's) friendship and support of Tuvok.

I'm not totally sure about the end, or the logic of sending some of the crew away while keeping a skeleton crew on board. If you're going to ditch the ship, ditch it, but if you're going to stay, I wouldn't think there would be too many superfluous crew members left, particularly with so many systems down. But I can live with it.

I'm looking forward to the conclusion. Since we only got about 2.5 months in part one, I'm guessing we've got a lot to go through.

And, Captrek, the captain has to be something of an autocrat, since ultimately the buck stops with her. It's her responsibility.

These episodes are generally a fan favorite. Glad you like them as well! :)

Rumor has it that it was the actress who finally told them to just let her have her own dang hair. So I don't know how much credit we can give those sneaky stylists with their love of plastic-y Lego haircuts. :lol:

It is odd that the crew did not know the phase variance of the torpedo, or that the word "Krenim" did not raise any alarm bells when they first happened on by to talk with the Zaal.

As far as the torpedo goes, that initial timeline change at the start could have borked their memories. It still doesn't explain why the Krenim fellow at the beginning didn't worry them, though. Perhaps Annorax's other incursions had altered their memories as well? They made very deliberate references and even copied two whole scenes from Before and After... so... not sure what they were thinking there.

I would assume they made some kind of jump in Before and After, as well. They clearly had to get past Borg space somehow. Perhaps the Krenim Imperium was more "restored" when they ran into them or something.

Anyways, the breaking teacup is in there on purpose. ;)

EDIT: Whoever directed this should have gotten an Emmy; I am not even kidding. Some of the shots are just agghhsfihaseufaseuf awesome.
 
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Year of Hell is what Voyager should have been for most of its run. If so, it would have been the best ST out of all of them. Stupid UPN.
 
Year of Hell is what Voyager should have been for most of its run. If so, it would have been the best ST out of all of them. Stupid UPN.

Some days I wish that had been the case, and others I think it would have been very monotonous after a while - I sometimes felt BSG's constant melodrama was a bit much.

I totally would have been down with it being a whole season, though. Wasn't that the plan before UPN poo-poohed it?
 
Not seeing the end yet, I'll volunteer that I could see this working as a mini-arc. One episode to set it up, another to get in deeper, one where they do some character development (like elaborating on the Seven/Tuvok and Janeway/Chakotay stuff in Part I), one where they get side-tracked for a mini-adventure, then the conclusion.

That's five episodes, which makes it lengthy enough to make a difference, but not as drawn-out as the season-plus Xindi arc.

I agree with froot--seeing Voyager get the crap kicked out of it for an entire season definitely would have gotten monotonous. But spread over 4-6 episodes, with some reversals here and there, it would have been really different.

This doesn't at all diminish what we got, IMHO.
 
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