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Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

And then we watched...

"Future's End, Part II"

Well, there were some twists, but not the kinds that made it good.

Again, the whole plot is so nonsensical, that it makes you wonder why they even bothered. The guest casting wasn't so hot, either. Sarah Silverman was nails on a chalkboard bad, and Ed Begley was just playing your typical unprincipled, evil corporate mogul. This actually got more difficult to sit through.

At least they referenced the Doctor losing his memory, though they addressed it in such a wishy-washy way that I almost wish they didn't. "I'm still in the process of recovering my memories" seems to be code for "we'll forget about the events of that episode, unless a future script needs us to remember them." Ugh.

Nice that he's got the mobile holo-emitter, though.

Instead of going to 7-11 for breakfast, they should have gone to Dinah's for some chicken and waffles. That would have been fun.

I like how they didn't follow up at all on that newscast of Voyager being visible...hell, being on KTLA or whatever local station that was supposed to be.

The plot twist into Arizona, and the Ruby Ridge/Waco/Timothy McVeigh types was, again, more lazy stereotyping, and the sudden injection of anti-government extremists into the story (particularly a year or two after the OKC federal building bombing) is a real drag on what should be a fun episode. A funnier way to do that would have had them crashing on some kind of meditation retreat--you know, the people who are into crystals and all that jazz. Have them venerate Chipotle and Torres as spirits from the sky, and make it so Tuvok and the Doc have to literally drag them out of there. I could see Torres' temper being a pretty funny element to work off of. It's still pretty broad, but at least it's good-natured.

We had an interesting discussion about what they really would have done if they'd been stuck in the 20th century. If I was in command, we'd head to Vulcan--at least we know that they had warp flight back then, and at the very least they'd want to study you. Staying on earth wouldn't be an option, because you could never divorce yourself from what was going on around you and you'd inevitably influence the timeline. Denobula wouldn't be a bad choice, either--they seem pretty tolerant of outsiders there.

Paris' "I'm about to kiss...your HEAD!" moment with Sarah was a bit awkward-looking.

And the resolution...reset button heaven. I don't believe that Janeway would just take Braxton's word for it that they had to go where they were meant to go. Why not say, "Screw you!" and do the TVH slingshot around the sun thing to get back to the 24th century?

Please indulge me for a moment while I lay out, in about a paragraph, how I would have handled the same idea (Voyager goes back to 20th century LA).

In the late 1960s, a young producer with a police show to his credit is out hiking at Vasquez Rocks. A small alien ship crash lands. It has no inhabitants, and YP is able to figure out how to use the only component that is salvageable: a time scanner. Scanning forward a few hundred years, he sees starships buzzing across the galaxy, and gets the idea for a revolutionary television show, set in the far future, showing just that.

Fast forward to 1996. He's still making TV shows, but he's running out of ideas. Somehow he's able to TECH the TECH to pull members of Voyager's crew back through time and space. Let's say it's Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, and Torres, with Chipotle and Paris back on board, trying to TECH the TECH to figure out where the others went.

In 1996, the producer starts pumping the Voyager 4 for ideas. Then he makes them go to a business lunch--cue smarmy Hollywood agent/tv exec stereotypes. You can take it to a whole meta-level, and have the Hollywood execs say that the real adventures of Voyager aren't good enough--you need to sex them up.

Meanwhile, Voyager discovers that the Producer opened a subspace chroniton rift that, if not sealed, will destroy the entire sector. Chipotle is able to TECH the TECH, and the V4 vanish in the middle of a dramatic studio meeting. Final shot is the studio greenlighting a pilot for a new show based on those fantastic special effects.

Done right, it's a tongue-in-cheek tribute to LA's entertainment culture and the show itself.
 
Now "Sacred Ground" was so bad that it almost made me give up on Voyager altogether. I had been given a heads-up on, had mentally prepared myself for, and had survived "Threshold" only to be blindsided by the steaming turd that was "Sacred Ground". It was a couple of months before I could bring myself to go back to watching Voyager episodes. Fortunately, (so far) Voyager never plumbed those depths again.
 
Hmmmm.... I don't think so. Never would have discribed it as a "steaming turd". That stupid one where Chakotay has some girlfriend he doesn't remember for some ridiculous reason now THAT was a fresh heeping pile of turd.
 
I liked "Sacred Ground" too.

But I've got another episode to discuss...

"The Q and the Grey"

Oh, this looks like fun. Q returns! And he wants a baby! With Janeway! A lot of potential there.

And it delivers, with some great riffing between Janeway and Q.

And a return to the Sandals holodeck program. Funny.

My favorite moment was when the female Q (I'll call her Q'lheyr) shows up.

"What are you doing with that dog?" Priceless look on Janeway's face. "And I don't mean the puppayy."

Oh wow. That was funny.

Making the Q Continuum understandable to mere mortals gives them a good excuse to dress up in the Civil War costumes. There's some good interplay between Q'lheyr and Torres.

And we get some torrid Q-tercourse. What could be better?

This one goes in the "dress up and have some fun" category. In the end, it wasn't terribly substantial, but they don't all have to be.
 
Urgh, I disagree completely! The episode was absurd, the Q are supposed to be all powerful beings but Tom Paris and whoever "defeat" them and go up behind them holding guns, its just SO dumb.
 
Is this what Admiral Hawthorne would call "subtext"?

CHAKOTAY: Have you heard anything more from Q?
JANEWAY: No. I wish I could believe he's gone for good.
CHAKOTAY: I was wondering just what just what you meant when you said he made a personal request.
JANEWAY: He wants to mate with me.
CHAKOTAY: I see.
JANEWAY: Obviously, it's out of the question. And I suspect it's a smoke screen. Knowing Q, he's probably got some hidden agenda.
CHAKOTAY: Maybe.
JANEWAY: Chakotay.
CHAKOTAY: I know I don't have any right to feel this way, but this bothers the hell out of me.

:drool:

How can you not love an ep where she's reassuring her XO with a hand to the chest?
 
^^ I am always amazed when fans claim there was never a subtext between Janeway and Chakotay, and this "subtext" is an example of what they overlook, imho. Not only was he bothered, she understood that he would be. :p
 
OK, back again, with what consider a very unmemorable episode...

"Macrocosm"

DVR blurb says, "The crew gets a virus." Not very promising.

An initial "WTF" moment with the tic tac alien guy doing that weird dance/speech. Although it reminded me a bit of the overly-stylized public speaking from Rome. Just a little bit. Good idea, execution that made it funny. Plus calling them the tic tacs is hilarious.

They get back to the ship and it's broken. Nobody's home.

Why didn't Janeway call sickbay right away? This doesn't make sense off the bat. At first I thought maybe I'd missed a line, but she doesn't seem surprised when she bumps into the Doctor, so she knew he was working (I think).

Once I found out this was about a virus that grows to macroscopic size, I realized where I've seen this before: Doctor Who's "The Invisible Enemy."

If you haven't seen that one, the climax is the doctor facing off with a giant shrimp. And it looks even sillier than it sounds.

Decent moments with Janeway going all Rambo with the over-sized gun (phasers are pretty powerful--wouldn't they be a better choice for hauling around the ship?).

Hey, HoloSandals is back. And attacked by viruses.

Then the tic tacs show up, just when they get the cure, leading to an excuse for Janeway to blow up HoloSandals.

Quick hit of the reset button, and everyone's fine.

On the whole, this was a pretty blah episode. A lot of it was Janeway hauling around the ship, which isn't bad in and of itself, but there wasn't much to it. It really dragged during the Doctor's exposition of what had happened, too. Very forgettable.

But...I really dig the jazz quintet music at the end--sounds like some great Latin jazz/West coast jazz. Absolutely cracked up when the music was playing over the bye-bye shot. They should have more of that stuff.
 
I liked Macrocosm because it ushered in the era of 'Janeway strips down to her singlet and goes Die Hard on some aliens' episodes.
 
I liked Macrocosm, too. Not only did we see "action Janeway," but there were some funny lines. It's Voyager's use of humor that I like best.
 
Absolutley the best "Janeway meets Laura Croft"... *sort of ;)

Its her I'm the Captain let me show you what I got, episode.

:drool:
 
OK, here's one that really, really underwhelmed the shatnertage household:

"Fair Trade"

DVR summary: "Neelix smuggles drugs."

Oh boy.

It's not just that it's an episode centered on my least favorite character: it's an episode that's probably going to end up like and after-school special preaching the message that Drugs are Bad.

And we get a non-sensical tease. Neelix is bugging the crap out of everyone. At first, I thought he was supposed to be addicted to some kind of upper here, but no, that's just his natural character.

Long story short, Neelix is feeling needy--why, I don't know, since the Voyager crew aren't exactly picky. It's not like they regularly chuck people out airlocks for not being important enough. Hell, Suder murdered someone in cold blood, and they just suspended him with pay for the duration of the trip.

So Neelix needs to get a map. And this provokes gales of laughter in my house.

Why? If you've got a toddler, you understand. If not, listen to this:

Dora Map Song

(Can anyone help me figure out how to embed video? Tried wrapping it in code, html, and php tags, but nothing worked. It's much funnier when you see it.)

So Neelix gets sucked into the seamy underbelly of drug-dealing over a map?

Side note: the Talaxians would have been much better dramatically if they weren't so damn goofy looking.

Absolutely OTT evil drug dealer, too.

Why couldn't Neelix have just told Janeway he needed to trade warp plasma for a map? It would have made things easier.

Another comic gem: when Neelix is talking to Paris. Just his tone of voice in asking, "How did you get into trouble?" which he said just as I was taking a sip of water, made me spit the water back in the glass. Hysterical.

The end, with Janeway professing the crew's undying love of Neelix was a bit much. How come he never expressed any concern about Kes during the whole episode? It was all "me, me, me."

The episode just didn't do him any favors. He just comes off as incredibly needy and annoying.

As a fourth-grade level primer in the Importance of Telling the Truth Always it works, but this was a painful episode to watch. Still, it was just enough funny-bad to make it worthwhile.

He's the MAP!
 
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Why couldn't Neelix have just told Janeway he needed to trade warp plasma for a map? It would have made things easier.

That was the whole point of the episode, Neelix had outlived his usefulness! He wanted to get the map so he could be useful himself in future and still feel needed by the crew.

Overall I totally understand where you are coming from, I initially found this episode incredibly dull but a rewatch showed it to be a tender episode about a man who just wants to be needed and wanted.
He's loyal to his friend and while his motives appear selfish, they are perfectly understandable. He is surrounded by smarter people everyday and has lost Kes, and now they are reaching a part of space where he won't really be needed anymore.
And Ethan Phillips absolutely NAILED his performance in this episode.
There are two types of Neelix, the Neelix that mulls about Voyager in the background and the Neelix that we see in his episodes which are some of the most emotional and well acted in Trek. "Fair Trade" is the lesser of the Neelix episodes and probably inferior to episodes like "Jetrel", "Mortal Coil" and "Once Upton a Time" but its still a touching character piece.

Its odd, but sometimes I actually tear up a little just thinking about Phillips' performances in the Neelix episodes, they're just THAT effective.
 
^^^I don't share your understanding of that episode, but who knows? Maybe someday I will.

And I'm on to another episode...

"Alter Ego"

DVR blurb: "Kim falls in love in the holodeck."

Oh noes. It's that one where Geordi falls in love in the holodeck redux, or the one where Riker falls in love in the holodeck redux. Crap. On the bright side, maybe we'll get another "Hollow Pursuits." I love that episode.

OK, this show is just starting off from a very, very dumb place. Harry is an adult. He's presumably...been around the block before. So how could he "fall in love" with what he knows to be a computer program? And if he was in love, couldn't he just program it to do unspeakable things with him until the cows came home? What's the conflict there?

And then going to Tuvok and demanding to be taught the mystical secrets of ridding himself of emotion to get over a holo-crush? That's incredibly insensitive. It's like asking to be converted to Orthodox Judaism overnight because you don't feel like working on Saturdays, or demanding that a Buddhist explain the Eight-Fold Path to you so you can feel less self-conscious before you make a big presentation. A completely trivial abuse of what is no doubt an ancient religio-philosophical system.

He's lucky Tuvok didn't chuck him out.

It would have been funny, if after he told Tuvok about his holo-love, Tuvok's Jenga thing fell to pieces, Tuvok looked down at it, then up at Kim, then shook his head.

So that's the major flaw right there--that someone would open up a highly personal part of their life to you, just to help you get over a case of puppy love.

And we're back in HoloSandals--well, they're getting their mileage out of the set, at least. I've never seen paradise look quite so tedious.

Seeing Paris in his Hawaiian shirt, I said to my wife, "So they're marooned 70 years from home, but they brought Hawaiian shirts? Huh?"

She said, "Maybe they replicate them."

Next thing you know, Paris is replicating one. Don't they have to conserve energy or something?

Now Tuvok's stealing Morena, and Kim is JEALOUS!!! Or just sulking. Poor Harry. Seriously, if he knows it's a holodeck, why can't he just reprogram her?

There's actually a good scene with Morena telling Tuvok that he likes to be alone in the crowd. From this point on, the episode gets more interesting.

Morena goes all stalker on Tuvok, and starts singing "All Mine" to him. (I'm listening to Portishead now, because she made me think of them.)

Then attacks the ship. Tuvok beams over, does the VOY equivalent of Kirk talking a computer to death, and it's all over.

It could have been worse--once the focus shifted to Tuvok the episode got a lot better. I would have appreciated him saying, "Hey, wait. I'm a married man," a little sooner, but he definitely carried the episode better than Kim. It's almost like the writer started out with Kim as the focus, then just gave up on him.

Not the worst, but not the best either. I could use a real ass-kicker of an episode sometime soon.
 
And this is neither here nor there, but all of the sudden there's this creepy Vulcan guy in engineering. He's shown up two episodes in a row, and seems to have a thing for Torres. I don't know exactly why, but something about him creeps me out.
 
And this is neither here nor there, but all of the sudden there's this creepy Vulcan guy in engineering. He's shown up two episodes in a row, and seems to have a thing for Torres. I don't know exactly why, but something about him creeps me out.

Can you say, "Blood fever"? :p
 
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