Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread
- Thread starter Shatnertage
- Start date
NOTE ABOUT SPOILERS
I’m going to try to match Shatnertage’s pace, but sometimes I’ll fall behind a little. I’d appreciate it if everybody would use spoiler tags until Shatnertage and I both indicate we have seen it. Thanks!
Thoughts on The Killing Game (Part I):
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How does a former Borg drone, who has probably not sung a note since she was six years old, have such a lovely singing voice?
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How did Steve Cohen get to choose the setting for the holodeck game?
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Does this conversation ever happen in real life?
•
•
• That has got to be the worst implementation of this trope I’ve ever seen!
Yes, even worse than Quark & Kim in the pilot.
Somebody please flush Kim out an airlock again, as many times as it takes.
•
You can reach the holodeck controls by moving aside some books on a bookshelf?
• Thank you, George W. Bush
I’m going to try to match Shatnertage’s pace, but sometimes I’ll fall behind a little. I’d appreciate it if everybody would use spoiler tags until Shatnertage and I both indicate we have seen it. Thanks!
Thoughts on The Killing Game (Part I):
•
How does a former Borg drone, who has probably not sung a note since she was six years old, have such a lovely singing voice?
•
How did Steve Cohen get to choose the setting for the holodeck game?
•
Does this conversation ever happen in real life?•
This is exactly why Zimmerman should have used my [post=4641055]Multiple Man[/post] idea. But no, he’s all, “I’m an engineer, not a holocomic writer.” Smart guy. No imagination.
•
Logan says it should have been the Canadians.
•
That has got to be the worst implementation of this trope I’ve ever seen!Yes, even worse than Quark & Kim in the pilot.
Somebody please flush Kim out an airlock again, as many times as it takes.
•
You can reach the holodeck controls by moving aside some books on a bookshelf?
•
Thank you, George W. Bush
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I'm back with what I am hoping is the "dud" AMG warned me about. If not, I'm in for something truly awful...
"Vis a Vis"
We see a grease monkey working on a slamming classic car in a 20th century-looking garage. I groan as I turn to my wife. "Please don't let that be Tom Paris."
"Of course it's going to be Paris," she says. "Who else is into cars?"
A word about good old Tommy's reputation in my house: it's bad. Neither of us likes the character. I know what they were trying to do with him. If I was a geeky adolescent, Tom is supposed to be the one that I aspire to be, while Harry is the one who I identify with. You see this dichotomy a lot, particularly in Trek. And there's nothing wrong with it. But Voyager just doesn't do it right.
And, as much as I hate critiquing actors, a lot of it comes down to the casting. I just don't buy Robert Duncan McNeil as a James Dean-style rebel. He's just too...non-threatening and sociable. He projects an aura of the guy who lives down the hall from you and is happy to help you carry your new couch up the stairs. Kind of dorky and goofy maybe, but a solid guy and a good friend.
Try this thought experiment: imagine Josh Holloway (Sawyer from Lost) as Tom Paris. Now that's a guy who'd really make you feel uneasy if you had to work next to him and he was in a bad mood. Plus, he gives the best dirty looks I've ever seen on TV.
The worst thing about Tom is how he's portrayed as the coolest guy on the ship, when he's just not cool.
So, it's a Paris episode--one strike against it. And he's feuding with the Doctor, which makes my wife comment again "Out of everyone on the ship, only the pilot can be the nurse?" A good point, which I'm sure has been raised before, particularly since, if there was a crisis, you'd expect him to be on the bridge, piloting the ship.
This stuff coming from Chakotay comes out of nowhere, particularly because Paris doesn't convey "disaffected" very well. And didn't we already get this with the "Paris is leaving Voyager" storyline back in season one?
I still see zero chemistry between him and Torres.
Then we meet Paris' new buddy, a test pilot named (I think at first) Steph. After a while, I figure out that it's really "Steth," but I like "Steph" better.
There's a goof that my wife picked up on that I didn't. When Paris and Steph are talking about the carburetor, Paris says, "You'll be amazed at how many times 20th century technology can solve a 24th century problem."
"What does that guy know about the 24th century?" she asks me.
"Yeah," I reply. "To him it's probably the 8,000th year since the dawn of the Second Age, or whatever."
Then there's the body swap, and Steph takes Tom's place in Voyager. He doesn't like it much.
The cleverest part of the episode is when Steph switches bodies with Janeway. I was very disappointed that we didn't get to see McNeil portray Janeway--that would have been fun.
And everyone gets their body back, except the now-unnamed alien body stealer.
We have a reconciliation between Paris and Torres, buy I'm taken out of the moment by his gushing over the "mint" 1969 Camaro. Of course it's in mint condition--it's on the holodeck!
That was a pretty boring episode, and one that makes my "worst of Voyager" list. Ugh.
"Vis a Vis"
We see a grease monkey working on a slamming classic car in a 20th century-looking garage. I groan as I turn to my wife. "Please don't let that be Tom Paris."
"Of course it's going to be Paris," she says. "Who else is into cars?"
A word about good old Tommy's reputation in my house: it's bad. Neither of us likes the character. I know what they were trying to do with him. If I was a geeky adolescent, Tom is supposed to be the one that I aspire to be, while Harry is the one who I identify with. You see this dichotomy a lot, particularly in Trek. And there's nothing wrong with it. But Voyager just doesn't do it right.
And, as much as I hate critiquing actors, a lot of it comes down to the casting. I just don't buy Robert Duncan McNeil as a James Dean-style rebel. He's just too...non-threatening and sociable. He projects an aura of the guy who lives down the hall from you and is happy to help you carry your new couch up the stairs. Kind of dorky and goofy maybe, but a solid guy and a good friend.
Try this thought experiment: imagine Josh Holloway (Sawyer from Lost) as Tom Paris. Now that's a guy who'd really make you feel uneasy if you had to work next to him and he was in a bad mood. Plus, he gives the best dirty looks I've ever seen on TV.
The worst thing about Tom is how he's portrayed as the coolest guy on the ship, when he's just not cool.
So, it's a Paris episode--one strike against it. And he's feuding with the Doctor, which makes my wife comment again "Out of everyone on the ship, only the pilot can be the nurse?" A good point, which I'm sure has been raised before, particularly since, if there was a crisis, you'd expect him to be on the bridge, piloting the ship.
This stuff coming from Chakotay comes out of nowhere, particularly because Paris doesn't convey "disaffected" very well. And didn't we already get this with the "Paris is leaving Voyager" storyline back in season one?
I still see zero chemistry between him and Torres.
Then we meet Paris' new buddy, a test pilot named (I think at first) Steph. After a while, I figure out that it's really "Steth," but I like "Steph" better.
There's a goof that my wife picked up on that I didn't. When Paris and Steph are talking about the carburetor, Paris says, "You'll be amazed at how many times 20th century technology can solve a 24th century problem."
"What does that guy know about the 24th century?" she asks me.
"Yeah," I reply. "To him it's probably the 8,000th year since the dawn of the Second Age, or whatever."
Then there's the body swap, and Steph takes Tom's place in Voyager. He doesn't like it much.
The cleverest part of the episode is when Steph switches bodies with Janeway. I was very disappointed that we didn't get to see McNeil portray Janeway--that would have been fun.
And everyone gets their body back, except the now-unnamed alien body stealer.
We have a reconciliation between Paris and Torres, buy I'm taken out of the moment by his gushing over the "mint" 1969 Camaro. Of course it's in mint condition--it's on the holodeck!
That was a pretty boring episode, and one that makes my "worst of Voyager" list. Ugh.
Uh-oh. This was the one I had tagged as "borderline dud". I actually kind of like it. I don't know why, considering that everything you said above is true. It appeals to me nonetheless.
Maybe my "dud" will appeal to you, for some reason that you can't really explain.
Here's hoping!
Maybe my "dud" will appeal to you, for some reason that you can't really explain.
Here's hoping!
Well, I saw episodes one and two of Doctor Who's The Twin Dilemma this morning. They make "Vis a Vis" look like Remains of the Day. So no matter what VOY throws at me, it can't possibly be that bad.
Even when Voyager's bad, it's more of an annoying, I-wish-they'd-done-this-differently bad than a I-can't-believe-they-got-seven-seasons bad. With 1980s Doctor Who as my yardstick, I really don't have much room to complain.
As annoying as Paris is, at least they didn't have other characters telling the audience about how annoying he was--which is exactly what the geniuses who made Twin Dilemma did for most of episode 1.
Even when Voyager's bad, it's more of an annoying, I-wish-they'd-done-this-differently bad than a I-can't-believe-they-got-seven-seasons bad. With 1980s Doctor Who as my yardstick, I really don't have much room to complain.
As annoying as Paris is, at least they didn't have other characters telling the audience about how annoying he was--which is exactly what the geniuses who made Twin Dilemma did for most of episode 1.
"Vis A Vie" is definitely on my "skip list" when I watch VOY. It's funny, during this go-round there are a lot of eps I don't remember at all, but the ones I didn't like really stand out. Sometimes all it takes is an ep title or if uncertain, a look at the scene selections: "That one? No way." I do notice that as the series progresses, I seem to have skipped more eps in seasons 5 and 6 than the earlier ones. I'm 1/4 season through 7 and I don't think I've skipped any eps yet. We'll see.
Shatnerage, I totally agree with your take on Paris. My 12 year-old daughter thinks he's "hot," but I never got the whole rebel thing from that particular actor in the series or even in "The First Duty" from TNG. I just don't think he's that great an actor. Maybe he's a better director, I don't know. I do remember being really disappointed when he was cast in the series as I did not care for him at all in the TNG ep. He got a little better for me when he was paired with Torres and it was (as in DS9) nice to actually see a couple go through courtship and marriage in ST for a change instead of one of them immediately dying once the marriage ceremony was complete.
Shatnerage, I totally agree with your take on Paris. My 12 year-old daughter thinks he's "hot," but I never got the whole rebel thing from that particular actor in the series or even in "The First Duty" from TNG. I just don't think he's that great an actor. Maybe he's a better director, I don't know. I do remember being really disappointed when he was cast in the series as I did not care for him at all in the TNG ep. He got a little better for me when he was paired with Torres and it was (as in DS9) nice to actually see a couple go through courtship and marriage in ST for a change instead of one of them immediately dying once the marriage ceremony was complete.
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I don't think Tom Paris is meant to be James Dean anymore than Marty McFly was.
If Tom Paris was supposed to be so cool, why did he always end up being the one that gets caught?
No, Tom Paris was the guy like Marty McFly that wants to be James Dean but ends up being the guy down the hall that helps move your sofa anyway. It was a facade. Sawyer is who he is because it was part of a plan, Tom is who he is because he doesn't apply himself.
If Tom Paris was supposed to be so cool, why did he always end up being the one that gets caught?
No, Tom Paris was the guy like Marty McFly that wants to be James Dean but ends up being the guy down the hall that helps move your sofa anyway. It was a facade. Sawyer is who he is because it was part of a plan, Tom is who he is because he doesn't apply himself.
Back at last, with a review of a decent episode that I don't think I really understood...
"The Omega Directive"
Good tease, with Seven detailing her day, which seems pretty tedious. Why does she need to do an hour of cardio a day? Thirty minutes should be more than enough. And is there a gym on every Borg cube? That would be cool.
I like how she beat Tuvok and Vulcan Jenga. Was Tuvok toying with Kim, letting him get close to beating him? Maybe, though he seemed nervous in a Vulcan way when he offered to accept Kim's forfeit.
On to the episode--it's not a bad idea, a "captain's only" directive, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. There was a lot of toddler babble going on in the house while this was on, so I think I missed something. If the Omega molecule gets destroyed, it messes up subspace. So the solution is to destroy all the Omega molecules? I'm guessing they explained this but I missed it.
Seven thinks its perfection and wants to stabilize it, while Janeway is duty-bound to destroy it. Man, those two never agree on anything.
So in the end they destroy it, but...so what? Wouldn't the aliens just go back to trying to create Omega molecules again, maybe with more urgency and fewer safeguards? It just seems like a temporary solution at best.
I don't think this was the dud that AMG warned me about--it maybe didn't make a lot of sense to me, but it wasn't a badly-made episode, and if I could have listened more carefully I might have liked it much more. So which could it be? Here are the other episodes on the disc. Going off the titles alone, I'm going to try to guess what each is about:
Unforgettable: Harry Kim falls in love on the holodeck. Or Chakotay does. I'm guessing this is the dud.
Living Witness: I've seen people mention this one, but I have no idea what it's about. I'm guessing that some kind of alien engram forces the crew to "remember" an alien atrocity of some sort, or something like that. Either that or Tuvok places Tom in witness protection or something.
Demon: A alien entity takes over Seven's Borg bits and makes her do naughty stuff. It is finally exorcised by the intelligence of the Doctor and the vivacity of Janeway's superior hairstyle.
Am I close?
"The Omega Directive"
Good tease, with Seven detailing her day, which seems pretty tedious. Why does she need to do an hour of cardio a day? Thirty minutes should be more than enough. And is there a gym on every Borg cube? That would be cool.
I like how she beat Tuvok and Vulcan Jenga. Was Tuvok toying with Kim, letting him get close to beating him? Maybe, though he seemed nervous in a Vulcan way when he offered to accept Kim's forfeit.
On to the episode--it's not a bad idea, a "captain's only" directive, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. There was a lot of toddler babble going on in the house while this was on, so I think I missed something. If the Omega molecule gets destroyed, it messes up subspace. So the solution is to destroy all the Omega molecules? I'm guessing they explained this but I missed it.
Seven thinks its perfection and wants to stabilize it, while Janeway is duty-bound to destroy it. Man, those two never agree on anything.
So in the end they destroy it, but...so what? Wouldn't the aliens just go back to trying to create Omega molecules again, maybe with more urgency and fewer safeguards? It just seems like a temporary solution at best.
I don't think this was the dud that AMG warned me about--it maybe didn't make a lot of sense to me, but it wasn't a badly-made episode, and if I could have listened more carefully I might have liked it much more. So which could it be? Here are the other episodes on the disc. Going off the titles alone, I'm going to try to guess what each is about:
Unforgettable: Harry Kim falls in love on the holodeck. Or Chakotay does. I'm guessing this is the dud.
Living Witness: I've seen people mention this one, but I have no idea what it's about. I'm guessing that some kind of alien engram forces the crew to "remember" an alien atrocity of some sort, or something like that. Either that or Tuvok places Tom in witness protection or something.
Demon: A alien entity takes over Seven's Borg bits and makes her do naughty stuff. It is finally exorcised by the intelligence of the Doctor and the vivacity of Janeway's superior hairstyle.
Am I close?
Omega Directive I have seen this episode about one hundred times and I still don't understand it. But it's a pretty awesome episode.
As for your guesses . . . Demon and Living Witness not even close. Well . . . Nope. Lol. And Unforgettable you're kind of close, and yes, it is a dud, but not as bad as Demon. Living Witness is the best episode out of the three. But this is IMO.
As for your guesses . . . Demon and Living Witness not even close. Well . . . Nope. Lol. And Unforgettable you're kind of close, and yes, it is a dud, but not as bad as Demon. Living Witness is the best episode out of the three. But this is IMO.
Yes. This is the dud. And you weren't too far off on the plot guess.
You missed the plot guess by a country mile. Not a dud. Actually, it does have some stuff going on in it that makes no sense. But it's a favorite of mine (and others) for . . . reasons that I won't mention just yet. You'll see.
No. NO NO NO. However, I would enjoy watching the episode you have described.
"Demon" is borderline-dud, to me. It makes NO SENSE whatsoever. But. It's kind of like "Eloguim" - it's easy to see ways to change the story around slightly here & there so that it would make sense and be really super. So, I don't call it a total dud. Also, there is follow up on this one in another episode that I really love. 'Nuff of that for now.I think it's easier to get if you think of it in the simplest terms.
Too Seven, Omega= God
Too Janeway, Omega= The Devil
Hmmm, continuing on exodus' theme...
To subtexters: fireplaces in holodecks = heaven.
To subtexters: fireplaces in holodecks = heaven.
Talk that talk, girl.Hmmm, continuing on exodus' theme...
To subtexters: fireplaces in holodecks = heaven.
Talk that talk, girl.Hmmm, continuing on exodus' theme...
To subtexters: fireplaces in holodecks = heaven.
I've never been a J/7 subtexter... and after all the Xena I've watched in the last 4 months, all I can say when I look at J/7 is... Are you freaking KIDDING me????
I feel like Crocodile Dundee complaining "That's (J/7) not a knife, THIS (X/G) is a KNIFE!"
Talk that talk, girl.Hmmm, continuing on exodus' theme...
To subtexters: fireplaces in holodecks = heaven.
I've never been a J/7 subtexter... and after all the Xena I've watched in the last 4 months, all I can say when I look at J/7 is... Are you KIDDING me????
I feel like Crocodile Dundee complaining "That's (J/7) not a knife, THIS (X/G) is a KNIFE!"
I think you've been watching too much Xena and need to which back over to Spartacus.
^ LOL. I'm thinking she's watched so many Voyager music vids that she has memorized all the subtext scenes for ALL pairings.
Hey, whippersnappers... stop dissing me!
As for Spartacus... I'm happy (and yet sad) to report that Andy has finally been replaced as the lead for season 2 of Spartacus: Blood and Sand.
And speaking of knives... the same can be said of Xena's X/G vs Spartacus' Gods of the Arena L/G.
Oh, my.
Must go to confession after watching THAT show.
As for Spartacus... I'm happy (and yet sad) to report that Andy has finally been replaced as the lead for season 2 of Spartacus: Blood and Sand.
And speaking of knives... the same can be said of Xena's X/G vs Spartacus' Gods of the Arena L/G.
Oh, my.
Must go to confession after watching THAT show.
HEY! Mine was a compliment!
Hey, how come you haven't ID'd the quote yet?
You don't have to "go far", you know.
You don't have to "go far", you know.
I don't know! I have trouble with the quotes sometimes, I think 'cause I've seen Voy so many more times in German than in English.
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