Another Voyager 1st-time watch thread

[froot]

I've always sat in the middle in Prey, too. I think if it were up to me, Voyager would have backed off. I tended to agree with Seven in this case, even though she was being insubordinate. However, I don't know if that would have been the "right" decision in the end or not. The safest, maybe, but not the right one.

However, fostering any kind of good will with the 8472s wasn't exactly a bad idea either. Voyager was already in a bit of hot water with the Hirogen, not to mention that the Hirogen basically thought of them as lower life forms anyway. Could be Janeway saw a chance to put some small pieces back together after Scorpion.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

MUSE:

TORRES: She is a Starfleet officer, trained to avoid violence whenever possible. She would make peace with the Borg if she could!

I'm with Janeway on this one.

Imagine the benefit to the Federation if she did make successful "second" contact with 8472... Fluidic space may have even been a "short cut" to the Alpha Quadrant, given 8472's knowledge of Starfleet Academy in Frisco.

 

[Captrek]

However, fostering any kind of good will with the 8472s wasn't exactly a bad idea either. Voyager was already in a bit of hot water with the Hirogen, not to mention that the Hirogen basically thought of them as lower life forms anyway. Could be Janeway saw a chance to put some small pieces back together after Scorpion.

I’m going to have to reject that argument on appeal for not having been raised at trial. Considering the amount of time Janeway spends justifying (or trying to justify) her actions in this episode, we must assume that her decision “to risk her ship, her life, the lives of her crew, and that annoying little girl in a fight to the death rather than butt the fuck out” is made for the reasons she states on screen.

 

[froot]

However, fostering any kind of good will with the 8472s wasn't exactly a bad idea either. Voyager was already in a bit of hot water with the Hirogen, not to mention that the Hirogen basically thought of them as lower life forms anyway. Could be Janeway saw a chance to put some small pieces back together after Scorpion.

I’m going to have to reject that argument on appeal for not having been raised at trial. Considering the amount of time Janeway spends justifying (or trying to justify) her actions in this episode, we must assume that her decision “to risk her ship, her life, the lives of her crew, and that annoying little girl in a fight to the death rather than butt the fuck out” is made for the reasons she states on screen.

Yeah, I guess it's never stated. I guess I was having a bit of a flash forward to

Spoiler: episode name

In The Flesh

, plus it's something that probably would have crossed my mind had I been there.

Which annoying little girl? Naomi?

 

[Shatnertage]

Took a break from "Retrospect" to do some housework. Not looking forward to watching the rest of it. Pretty blah so far.

 

[Captrek]

However, fostering any kind of good will with the 8472s wasn't exactly a bad idea either. Voyager was already in a bit of hot water with the Hirogen, not to mention that the Hirogen basically thought of them as lower life forms anyway. Could be Janeway saw a chance to put some small pieces back together after Scorpion.

I’m going to have to reject that argument on appeal for not having been raised at trial. Considering the amount of time Janeway spends justifying (or trying to justify) her actions in this episode, we must assume that her decision “to risk her ship, her life, the lives of her crew, and that annoying little girl in a fight to the death rather than butt the fuck out” is made for the reasons she states on screen.

Yeah, I guess it's never stated. I guess I was having a bit of a flash forward to

Spoiler: episode name

In The Flesh

, plus it's something that probably would have crossed my mind had I been there.

Which annoying little girl? Naomi?

Yes, “that annoying little girl” was a reference to Naomi. The other annoying little girls had already been covered under “her crew.”

 

[Shatnertage]

Now that I've had a few hours to think about it, I'm going to take a look back at...

"Retrospect"

I just don't have a lot to say about this episode. It wasn't terrible like "Nemesis" or "Message in a Bottle," but it wasn't that good, either. "Retrospect" is just kind of...there. It's almost a perfect filler episode to break up the excellence of the Hirogen mini-arc.

Usually, Trek mashups are fun. Combine Trek with The Dirty Dozen (or any WWII film) and you get "The Killing Game" (do it badly, though, and you get "Storm Front"). I'm not as big a fan of Western Trek ("Spectre of the Gun," "North Star"), but it's out there, and thanks to the holodeck they've combined Trek with everything from Sherlock Holmes to...Sherlock Holmes.

"Retrospect" is, at its core, Star Trek meets the Lifetime Movie Network. The plot and even dialog, with a few changes, could easily be from a Lifetime movie. Just swap out Seven with a high school student and Covin with her chemistry teacher and you're half-way there.

So there really isn't too much else I've got to say about this one.

 

[T.D. Possum]

"Retrospect"
"Revulsion"
"Repentance"
"Repression"

I have to stop and concentrate really hard whenever I try to remember which of these is which. That should tell you a lot about how exciting I found them. (I know you haven't seen all them yet.)

Well, buck up, camper. You've got a couple of good ones coming up. Also, at least one dud, but some good stuff is headed your way.

 

[Captrek]

I’m wondering how I should discuss my own observations. Shatnertage and I are, at least for the moment, at the same place in the series. Possible approaches include:

• Adjust my watching to stay within a few episodes of tage. When posting about an episode before tage does, use spoiler tags.
• When watching an episode before tage posts about it, write up my comments, set them aside, and post them after tage posts his.
• Post in my own watch thread.

I see pros and cons to each.

 

[Shatnertage]

What are the cons?

 

[Captrek]

What are the cons?

#1 is what I’ve been doing for the most part. I’m wondering whether this scheme is negatively affecting the degree to which my posts are read and responded to. Nobody has shown any sign of having read, let alone responded to, my comments on (for example) Prey and Retrospect. Maybe the reason is that my comments aren’t as interesting as I thought, or maybe it has something to do with the scheme of posting spoilertagged comments before you table the episode for discussion. I don’t know, which is why I’m asking for feedback from other participants in the thread.

#2 is a pain in the neck if I’m watching episodes ahead of you, since I like to write up my comments immediately after I’m done watching, or while I’m watching. I’d end up writing up my comments, saving them somewhere, and coming back later to post them. It’s not exactly working on a chain gang, but it is inconvenient.

(If I’m watching episodes behind you, I risk exposing myself to spoilers. It occurs to me that we could work out some kind of symmetric system where everybody spoilertags until you and I both indicate that we have seen the episode, but I wouldn’t presume. It is your thread after all. Call it option #1a.)

#3 gives me the flexibility to watch the series at my own pace instead of matching yours, but that means you and I wouldn’t be seeing and discussing each other’s comments as we go, and it’s two threads for everybody else to deal with instead of one.

 

[CoffeeAddict]

Is it bad that I have this saved in my favorites on YouTube?

Ha, no! I did the same thing!

 

[Shatnertage]

Well, I needed to kill some time last night so I watched some

"The Killing Game, Part I"

I actually already talked about this thanks to Spike scrambling the viewing order when I was watching on Spike. You can read my thoughts here.

Watching it again, that is one of the best VOY teases ever.

I still don't like the white tux. It's not the color of it, it's the cut, and the tails. But I really liked that yellow dress she wore the next day.

Knowing the show a little better, I like how the crew dynamics is almost exactly the same, even in the simulation: Tuvok doesn't trust Seven and is fiercely protective of Janeway, and he and Neelix are constantly sparring.

Thanks to Memory Alpha I just learned that Jeri Ryan did her own singing. She's got a nice voice.

The "philosophical" Hirogen guy is even more interesting, now that I know who they are.

This is a really good episode. I might like it better than Year of Hell.

 

[T.D. Possum]

Have to say I agree with you on everything except for the thing you know I don't agree with you on. White tux FTW!

Jeri Ryan sings in several other episodes later on, including some duets with Picardo. Some of the singing scenes are really great Voyager moments.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: White tux. May I be so bold as to suggest, perhaps you are looking for the Marlene Dietrich version of the black tux with the black silk stockings?

Given the photos of Mulgrew in that short white summer dress/legs crossed, its obvious she could have pulled off that look, but I suspect they went with the trousers to decrease the sex appeal aspect of the costume.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SsRMJMKjX0 first 2 minutes with copius shots of Kate in AMG's fav tux.

 

[Shatnertage]

I love that my dislike for the white tux is the most controversial thing I've ever said on TBBS. And that this group seems pretty tolerant about it.

 

[T.D. Possum]

^

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Oh, that's not controversial... Just make sure you check under your car before you get in it tonight, in case AMG has been in town.

"The white dress".... second row, 2nd from the right.

I thought about just including the one pic, but knew AMG would prefer to salivate over all 45 pages.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&biw=1139&bih=661&gbv=2&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=kate+mulgrew&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

vs... that OTHER famous lady in HER tux.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&...hIKUB_GYsdEG&ved=0CDQQ1QIoAg&biw=1120&bih=661

 

[kimc]

with both Kim and Chakotay stuck in these one-sided attractions.

Not so one-sided in Chakotay's case. He needed to make a move though. As captain Janeway didn't have that luxury.

Come to think of it he seemed like the passive "along for the ride" guy with Seven in "Endgame" too. Hmm....

 

[Shatnertage]

^ Chakotay comes across as a very passive, "let water seek its own level" kind of guy to me. In Year of Hell he had no problem working with Annorax, and for that matter it took him about two seconds to accept Janeway as THE captain in Caretaker.

Although, to be fair to him, it is THE Janeway we're talking about.

Which leads me...

"The Killing Game, Part II"

Since I've already seen this one, I don't have too much to say. Still love the story, but a few things stuck out this time:

I didn't know they made short-sleeve turtlenecks like the one guerrilla Janeway sports for much of this episode. An interesting choice.

For all the talk of Hirogen as hunters, the simulations they run aren't about hunting. They're about combat. There's a big difference there.

Good to see the Klingons kicking ass against the Nazis, though.


And I really don't have any problem with Janeway sharing holodeck technology with the Hirogen. They're clearly warp-capable, and, unlike the Kazon, they don't have awful hair. Well, they don't have any hair at all....

It would have been nice if Janeway had gotten something out of it, other than "we'll let you go this time." Maybe some kind of cloaking device or other technology that would help them out. That would make it seem to be more of an equal exchange.