Another TOS inspiration for TMP

[RColtrane]

I know that a lot have been discussed about the origins of Star Trek - The Motion Picture. Two TOS episodes seem to have influenced the movie writers in many ways, which were "The Changeling" and "The Doomsday Machine". But after rewatching some TOS episodes, one caught my attention because of some similarities it has to TMP. The episode is "Where no man has gone before"!

In this episode, the enterprise reaches the limits of a galaxy and they come across a giant nebula or something which looks very much like V'gers exterior energy clouds. Then Kirk decides to go right through it and when they enter this nebula, two crew members are immediately affected by an energy blast (one male and one female - they would relate to Decker and Ilia) and both of them are sensitive.

So maybe these ideas came from this episode in particular. What do you think about it?

 

[Pauln6]

That episode is more about absolute power corrupting absolutely. In Discovery they might have dragged it out over a full season!

I would have liked to see more of Ilia's racial abilities though. It's a shame that she disappeared so quickly.

 

[ItIsGreen]

Racial abilities?

 

[urbandefault]

Racial abilities?

Elapsed time in the quarter mile. You know, how she performs on the racetrack.

 

[ItIsGreen]

Elapsed time in the quarter mile. You know, how she performs on the racetrack.

Probably not too well in those heels.

 

[Christopher]

You can never assume that similarities between two stories are intentional, because stories have a common syntax and structure, so patterns are bound to recur from time to time. I've always thought there was a striking similarity between TMP and the animated episode "One of Our Planets is Missing." Both involve the Enterprise investigating a giant cosmic cloud that's demonstrated destructive abilities and is heading for a populated planet. Both have the ship go inside the cloud and maneuver through its innards until reaching its brain center. Both have Kirk order Scotty to rig self-destruct to destroy the brain, but both have Spock make telepathic contact with the entity in order to understand it, and in both cases it's ultimately communicated with and convinced to move on out of our galaxy.

Now, I knew that Alan Dean Foster, the guy who wrote the novelizations of the animated series, also wrote the original story outline for "In Thy Image," the Phase II pilot that became TMP. So I always figured Foster had been influenced by the animated episode. But when I got the book Phase II: The Lost Series and read Foster's original outline, I found that it didn't have any of the plot points that reminded me of OOOPIM. All of those were added later by Harold Livingston. So it must have simply been a coincidence, no matter how striking the parallels seemed.

 

[Pauln6]

Racial abilities?

Too much time spent playing RPGs

 

[alpha_leonis]

On the question of Ilia's "racial abilities": check out Counselor Troi for what Ilia might have been if the "Phase II" series had been made. Troi was a direct rewrite of Ilia (just like Riker was Decker, and Data was Xon.)

They kind of dropped her hypersexuality (with the exception of the "naked wedding" idea), but the rest of the character concept was pretty similar.

 

[Christopher]

They kind of dropped her hypersexuality (with the exception of the "naked wedding" idea), but the rest of the character concept was pretty similar.

Nudism isn't sexual. It's just about comfort with one's body. A better comparison would be the Betazoid "phase" introduced in "Manhunt," where the sex drive more than triples in intensity.

 

[Pauln6]

On the question of Ilia's "racial abilities": check out Counselor Troi for what Ilia might have been if the "Phase II" series had been made. Troi was a direct rewrite of Ilia (just like Riker was Decker, and Data was Xon.)

They kind of dropped her hypersexuality (with the exception of the "naked wedding" idea), but the rest of the character concept was pretty similar.

The novelisation of TWoK had a Deltan couple and they were written as a fascinating species. The original draft for Ilia was that they could communicate telepathically only with images and they were not empathic , so not that similar to Troi. Plus if they emit powerful pheromones, one assumes they are sensitive to pheromones - a much more nebulous and intriguing form of empathy IMO. The way Ilia anaethetises Chekov could also be biochemical.

 

[Galileo7]

Both compelling couples ?

 

[Valenti]

Coupling was science fiction to a lot of fourteen year olds at the time. V'ger was a malfunctioning machine that was cast out of it's heaven.

 

[Maurice]

I think that's a stretch. The similarities put forth are superficial.

 

[Christopher]

I think that's a stretch. The similarities put forth are superficial.

They usually are in threads like this.

 

[Khan 2.0]

SCollins looked alittle like Dave Bowman (who sacrificed himself for the pursuit of greater knowledge/transformed into a higher lifeform) - so theres a tenuous '2001' connection to WNMHGB

 

[RColtrane]

They usually are in threads like this.

Heeeeeyyyy, C'monnn!!!!

 

[Valenti]

Yea, they cannibalized themselves when they had plenty of better stories from Phase two to use. They had a machine God like in the God Thing but didn't develop that idea or flesh it out. Instead they created Q who was supposed to be their baby or the product of their merging. Even Shatner told Gene more pages had to come out to develop the story more esp in relation to V'ger etc. and Kirk had no personal stakes. It was a rip off of 2001.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I think that's a stretch. The similarities put forth are superficial.

Agreed. Very Superficial; the two episodes have distinct storylines while TMP is another.

 

[Maurice]

Yea, they cannibalized themselves when they had plenty of better stories from Phase two to use. They had a machine God like in the God Thing but didn't develop that idea or flesh it out. Instead they created Q who was supposed to be their baby or the product of their merging. Even Shatner told Gene more pages had to come out to develop the story more esp in relation to V'ger etc. and Kirk had no personal stakes. It was a rip off of 2001.

Q had nothing to do with the V'ger/Decker/Ilia merger. Assuming that's what you're suggesting. Your posts are sometimes difficult to parse.

 

[Valenti]

Do you believe he's a race of omnipotent beings like Apollo et al.? I think that was a mistake just like making Data Human built. IMO.