Another Step Forward for Private Spaceflight

[sojourner]

Yep, Elon Musk, a man who already made his fortune on Paypal, (what a con that was, I can't believe so many fell for it) put the majority of his personal fortune into SpaceX and the only thing to show for it is some cool powerpoint slides. Falcon1? Falcon 9? Merlin? Dragon? - no, those never got built or flown, just media hype by a con-man.

Some people have strange definitions of "incompetent".

Well during that time NAA/Rockwell built something called Space Shuttle. Boeing did research on the National Aerospace Plane which was cancelled, the Delta Clipper, and they competed for the Orion project which Lockheed won.

Yep, too bad they didn't have the guts to finish any of those on their own dime.

Well that's because they want things to be better. Aren't you the one who wants innovation.

better, faster, cheaper - pick any two.

SpaceX hasn't raised their prices. Elon Musk is still saying he can deliver a $500/lb to LEO.

Hmmm, using the most conservative numbers posted on Spacex's website, they are advertising about $2300 per pound to LEO.

Quick note you are wrong. The Air Force has been seriously considering an independent route to space since Challenger. That included manned missions. The problem has been funding and resistance from NASA bureaucracy.

The Airforce want's garuanteed access to orbit. One ofthe reasons they initially contracted for 2 separate launchers in the Atlas and DeltaIV. (though this got sunk when the companies making them merged). If one launcher had a technical issue requiring a stand down of say 2 years (like the shuttles), they still had a backup. They don't want changes to the production line of those two vehicles that might hinder reliability. Yes, the Airforce has studied manned missions since the 50's, but never actually found a need for it.

I said PLANNED not confirmed. In fact the only customer for Falcon Heavy is NASA (and possibly the US Military) and they haven't stated anything yet.

So they PLAN for one launch and are moving ahead with it. Sounds like they have the financing to build Falcon9 heavy to me. Now, do they have financing to launch it multiple times? no, but then again, that's a different argument.

The fiasco at Tesla motors proves that Elon Musk is either a con man from Silicon Valley (famous for the hype and dump) or incompetent. Either doesn't fill me with much hope.

Truth to tell, I don't read much about Tesla other than the headlines. What "fiasco" are you referring to?

When SpaceX goes to the government for money because "increased development cost" than you know it's a con.

Yet when other companies "go to the government" (whatever this means considering Spacex get's money based on milestone achievements being reached in it's contracts) it's just good business.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^And yet SpaceX is still years ahead of Boeing when it comes to launching a manned capsule.

You do know that North American Aviation built the Command and Service module to Apollo. Guess who owns NAA. Yep BOEING. SpaceX think they can put people in space. Boeing has many times over.

And we're all waiting with baited breath for them to go ahead and do that.

It's just that nobody here seriously believes they'll do it before SpaceX does. This is because SpaceX, unlike boeing, has actually flown their capsule in space and is getting ready to fly the second one to the ISS later this year, where CST-100 has not yet even been ground tested.

You can cast your doubts on SpaceX all you want, but you can't argue with results.

Well they did have to develop all that technology from scratch...

No they didn't. They acquired it when they bought North American Aviation, remember?

Also remember that SpaceX hasn't lowered the prices yet.

Yes they have. The Falcon-9's cost-per-payload rate is about $4,000, compared to Ariane 5's $9,000 and the shuttle's $35,000.

It would have if NASA properly funded their programs.

Are you saying NASA properly funded SpaceX?

Did you know that Lockheed Martin finally solved the last hurdle in producing composite fuel tanks.

Did you know that nobody at Lockheed Martin WANTED composite fuel tanks in the first place? That was a requirement NASA injected into the final design and then got congress to insist on in the NASA budget the following year. A flight ready Venture Star prototype was actually produced and ground tested with conventional tanks and NASA told them "Thanks but no thanks."

The Atlas has the advantage of being based on a family of launchers going back to 1965. It also has the backing of the US Air Force. Falcon 9 is basically a new design with 2 successful launches. I'm sure given enough time both will be man rated but Atlas will probably get their first.

Of course Atlas will get there first.

CST-100, however, won't.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

The fiasco at Tesla motors proves that Elon Musk is either a con man from Silicon Valley (famous for the hype and dump) or incompetent. Either doesn't fill me with much hope.

What fiasco at Tesla motors are you talking about exactly? They promised a luxury sportscar that surpassed any electric vehicle sold at the time and delivered it, and are now producing a luxury sedan that promises to do the same. Last time I heard a con man is a man who deceives the intended audience, not one who delivers what he has promised.

But then I guess he is incompetent – after all, he has had so much troubles solving these risky and extreme challenges he has chosen to undertake....

 

[Mysterion]

Quick note you are wrong. The Air Force has been seriously considering an independent route to space since Challenger. That included manned missions. The problem has been funding and resistance from NASA bureaucracy.

Even longer than that. See DynaSoar, MOL, Blue Gemini, the Vandenberg SLC, etc.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ The reason for that isn't so much "resistance" from NASA as much as the fact that manned spaceflight serves no real military purpose at all and the Air Force has been able to meet just about all of its objectives for the past fifty years with unmanned satellites and probes. Even the X-37B, an abandoned NASA program--is pretty much just a glorified spy satellite with wings.