Not enough for my liking, he always shone when called upon, or was it the fact he was not utilised often that made his appearances special?
Acording to IMDb he is credited for 37 episodes. I know, I know I cheated.
Another Re-watching DS9 thread (spoilers)
- Thread starter benjaminh
- Start date
Acording to IMDb he is credited for 37 episodes. I know, I know I cheated.
"You blew up your own shop!"
"Now, Constable...."
That was a great touch.
"Now, Constable...."
That was a great touch.
That just floored me. I just knew it was more. My favorite character in the series by far, and he only was in 37 eps.Tons of those from Garak.
"especially the lies..."
I mean that's assuming that IMDb is correct.
But yeah there are so many great lines from him from epsiode's like our man Bashir such as "Kiss the girl, get the key - they never taught me *that* in the Obsidian Order."
and also this little exchange with Bashir
[Bashir has shot at Garak, who is lightly bleeding from his neck]
Dr. Julian Bashir: You'll be fine. It's just a flesh wound.
Garak: That was awfully close. What if you'd killed me?
Dr. Julian Bashir: What makes you think I wasn't trying?
Garak: Doctor, I do believe there's hope for you yet.
Dr. Julian Bashir: Well, I'm so relieved!
Garak gets many of the best lines, but I don't think his character always stood out in every episode. For instance, Odo is really out front in The Die is Cast. I think the joke about Odo's sarcasm is a reference to the fact that Odo has taken the lead in the story. Of course, Andrew Robinson was a great actor to play off of, and the writers probably used that to great effect. Hence the number of episodes in which Garak is paired up with one of the series regulars.
Peak-Garak is when he dissembles about his past and with a grin that's just a little too wide insists he's "but a simple tailor". Vintage Garak.
When he can't hold that pretence anymore, the character, understandably, isn't quite as strong. .
When he can't hold that pretence anymore, the character, understandably, isn't quite as strong. .
I loved it when he disassembled Ezri
I don't remember that, oh well CBS action in the UK is just coming on to the final season so maybe I can catch the final season or at least have it on in the background.I loved it when he disassembled Ezri
Does anyone else feel that the actors and acting in DS9 is the best out of any series and it's not even close? Just wonderful acting. Even the different episodes such as Far Beyond the Stars is pretty well done, solely because of the acting imho. If that was done on TNG it would have been pretty bad. What do you folks think?
I think this is the show I've seen the most episodes. I think there's probably five or so that I still haven't seen.
I wouldn't say "not even close"
I think what's extraordinary about DS9 is that it has this large ensemble and it has the most consistent high quality acting of the lot. I think I can say that with some confidence. But it's hard to say that, for example, Stewart doesn't have his extraordinary moments.
Patrick Stewart is a fantastic actor but beyond him TNG lacked acting talent big time. Brooks, Visitor, Auberjonois are all very good actors. Even Quark, Bashir, etc are miles ahead of the other core characters in TNG imho. I love TNG, but I'd consider Riker/Frakes perhaps the next best actor in TNG and a lot of his acting really isn't exceptional (although I love him).
I don't know..just wanted to get peoples thoughts on it.
I don't know..just wanted to get peoples thoughts on it.
I agree. Patrick Stewart was great, but most of the rest of TNG were okay to good but definitely short of great. Even Cirroc Lofton did an excellent job playing a believable 11-17 yo, and of course Andrew Robinson was probably the best actor in any of the ST series. (Well, maybe not Joan Collins.)
The TNG people were competent so I don't dig the "lacking acting talent big time". Dorn cut his teeth and had exceptional episodes. Spiner's performance is underrated - he got the gig that all actors despise - that of the robot without emotions. And while noone could match Spock's stature or even come close; he did forge a character that was plausible and distinct. He played the Spock "role" whilst not making the mistake of being a parody of Spock. He did Soong very well, Lore too, on the occasion the writing was up to the mark.
The TNG ensemble weren't tested to the degree that Team DS9 was tested in terms of acting. The bridge crew all got on great, they were typically in agreement and everything was sweet as a nut by the time the average TNG episode wrapped up.
DS9 is a city in the sky where you have diverse people with colliding value systems regularly creating sparks who's development is cast over long story arcs. Odo versus Quark, Garak versus Worf, Garak versus Kira, Bashir and Garak. Whereas with TNG, Riker and Picard and Troi are almost always cool with each other, Team DS9 got entangled with each other every second week and entanglement is the crucible of rich character development. .
Compared to TNG, the DS9 cast was much heavier on performers oriented toward the stage. MIchael Piller was certainly interested in making it seem that the show reflected the gravitas for which Trek had been reputed and build upon it. Those casting decisions, I believe, ended up being reflected in the writing as producers tried to appease those actors. Shimmerman, Visitor an Auberjonois were particularly vocal about the development of their characters and the stories they got. Brooks was far less vocal, but producers, Behr in particular, started to fear he would quit the show and started to write stories that appealed to him. Meaney's career interests were in film, but he was becoming a hot property, and the producers clearly bent his filming schedule.
I could be argue that the DS9 cast was better, but I think it would be more precise that the approaches of the various actors affected the tone of the show over all. Farrell and Down have said that their was an extreme air of professionalism on the set, and that the actors generally expected a lot from one another.
All that said, DS9 owes a debt of gratitude to TNG when it come to casting. Shimerman, Meaney, Chao, and Aliamo all cut their with TNG and were known to the producers. Indeed, their TNG characters were more or less carried over to DS9. Chao, if I am not mistaken, was considered for the role that became Tasha Yar.
I could be argue that the DS9 cast was better, but I think it would be more precise that the approaches of the various actors affected the tone of the show over all. Farrell and Down have said that their was an extreme air of professionalism on the set, and that the actors generally expected a lot from one another.
All that said, DS9 owes a debt of gratitude to TNG when it come to casting. Shimerman, Meaney, Chao, and Aliamo all cut their with TNG and were known to the producers. Indeed, their TNG characters were more or less carried over to DS9. Chao, if I am not mistaken, was considered for the role that became Tasha Yar.
My top season 4 episodes are:
The Way of the Warrior
The Visitor
Starship Down
Little Green Men
Homefront
Crossfire
Bar Association
Accession
Rules of Engagement
Hard Time
For the Cause
To the Death
The Quickening
Broken Link
Least favorite:
The Muse
Here are my season 4 rankings. My average is up from Season 3. I agree, I thought this was a better season.
The Way of the Warrior 4
The Visitor 3.5
Hippocratic Oath 2.5
Indiscretion 2.5
Rejoined 3
Little Green Men 3
Starship Down 3
The Sword of Kahless 1
Our Man Bashir 3
Homefront 4
Paradise Lost 4
Crossfire 2.5
Return To Grace 2.5
The Sons Of Mogh 1.5
Bar Association 1
Accession 2.5
Rules Of Engagement 3.5
Hard Times 3
Shattered Mirror 2.5
The Muse 1
For The Cause 3.5
To The Death 3.5
The Quickening 4
Body Parts 3.5
Broken Link 2.5
Total: 70.5
Average: 2.82
I think folks tend to confuse how good the actors performed with how their parts are written.
For TNG, Stewart (obviously) was very good - but if you remember, it too a little while for Patrick to be comfortable on TV. He too was at home on the stage.
Frakes was good from the start and probably the most consistent from start to finish.
Spiner should have won awards for his performances as Data. Truly great.
All the rest were just fine, with the only real head scratcher being Lavar when given any type of romantic stuff. I don't know if it was the visor or what but they weren't his best performances.
For DS9...
The ONLY way this series stayed on the air is that the supporting characters/actors, Odo, Quark, Garak, Obrien, etc were exceptional.
Avery Brooks is a horrible actor by any standard WRT to acting. He can't convey ANY emotion without overacting. He can't even get the voice inflections right. He over pronounces words all the time. I to this day can't believe they couldn't find a better black male actor. If this series had been on a star ship where he was at the center of the stories more often, I believe the show doesn't make it past the 1st season. To compare his acting skills to Stewart's is ridiculous.
Alexander Siddig was horrible in the 1st season, but at least he did seem to get it right starting with season 2.
Nana Visitor, as with many trek actors over the years across all series, overacted quite frequently early on (Torres, Stewart, Burton, Dorn, Keating even Mulgrew for a period comes to mind). But she too got better with experience and time. The same with Terry Farrell, but I attribute her improvement to a change in writing the character. Terry wasn't very suited to the perfect princess characterization they began with.
In short, if I watch the show and it looks like they are acting, they aren't doing their job. I saw that with DS9 more than any trek series.
IMO and the writers, the best crew of actors in the spin-offs was on Enterprise.
For TNG, Stewart (obviously) was very good - but if you remember, it too a little while for Patrick to be comfortable on TV. He too was at home on the stage.
Frakes was good from the start and probably the most consistent from start to finish.
Spiner should have won awards for his performances as Data. Truly great.
All the rest were just fine, with the only real head scratcher being Lavar when given any type of romantic stuff. I don't know if it was the visor or what
but they weren't his best performances.For DS9...
The ONLY way this series stayed on the air is that the supporting characters/actors, Odo, Quark, Garak, Obrien, etc were exceptional.
Avery Brooks is a horrible actor by any standard WRT to acting. He can't convey ANY emotion without overacting. He can't even get the voice inflections right. He over pronounces words all the time. I to this day can't believe they couldn't find a better black male actor. If this series had been on a star ship where he was at the center of the stories more often, I believe the show doesn't make it past the 1st season. To compare his acting skills to Stewart's is ridiculous.
Alexander Siddig was horrible in the 1st season, but at least he did seem to get it right starting with season 2.
Nana Visitor, as with many trek actors over the years across all series, overacted quite frequently early on (Torres, Stewart, Burton, Dorn, Keating even Mulgrew for a period comes to mind). But she too got better with experience and time. The same with Terry Farrell, but I attribute her improvement to a change in writing the character. Terry wasn't very suited to the perfect princess characterization they began with.
In short, if I watch the show and it looks like they are acting, they aren't doing their job. I saw that with DS9 more than any trek series.
IMO and the writers, the best crew of actors in the spin-offs was on Enterprise.
OK So it's been a little while since I saw this season but I checked the quick synopsis on each of the episodes in this season and based on what I remember I got the following.
The Way of the Warrior 4
The Visitor 4
Hippocratic Oath 2.5
Indiscretion 2
Rejoined 3
Little Green Men 1
Starship Down 3
The Sword of Kahless 1
Our Man Bashir 4
Homefront 4
Paradise Lost 4
Crossfire 2
Return To Grace 2
The Sons Of Mogh 1
Bar Association 1
Accession 1
Rules Of Engagement 4
Hard Times 3
Shattered Mirror 1.5
The Muse 1
For The Cause 3.5
To The Death 3.5
The Quickening 2.5
Body Parts 1
Broken Link 2.5
Total: 62
Average: 2.48
The Way of the Warrior 4
The Visitor 4
Hippocratic Oath 2.5
Indiscretion 2
Rejoined 3
Little Green Men 1
Starship Down 3
The Sword of Kahless 1
Our Man Bashir 4
Homefront 4
Paradise Lost 4
Crossfire 2
Return To Grace 2
The Sons Of Mogh 1
Bar Association 1
Accession 1
Rules Of Engagement 4
Hard Times 3
Shattered Mirror 1.5
The Muse 1
For The Cause 3.5
To The Death 3.5
The Quickening 2.5
Body Parts 1
Broken Link 2.5
Total: 62
Average: 2.48
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