Another Re-watching DS9 thread (spoilers)
- Thread starter benjaminh
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The Nagus
Quark is one of my favorite characters. But, in spite of that, for some strange reason I'm usually lukewarm about the Farengi centered episodes. I don't hate them, but they aren't favorites either. This one is funny in a few places, and fills out some of the culture, but it seems like another placeholder before they figured out more of what DS9 was about.
Rating: B-
Quark is one of my favorite characters. But, in spite of that, for some strange reason I'm usually lukewarm about the Farengi centered episodes. I don't hate them, but they aren't favorites either. This one is funny in a few places, and fills out some of the culture, but it seems like another placeholder before they figured out more of what DS9 was about.
Rating: B-
Vortex's original trailers:
I actually liked this one. Odo is masterfully played by Rene Auberjonois. He somehow infuses this character with the blank face with deep emotions. This is the first beginning clue to his destiny. It's not much, but both Odo and DS9 are finding clues to their paths. The story is somehow touching too, and also continues the path of ambiguity for the characters and their actions that helped define the series. Croden, played by Cliff DeYoung, is a character that I liked. I believed the friendship of necessity that developed between him and Odo.
Real emotions and real ideas. These are keys to DS9 and they begin to be found here. I wouldn't call it a great episode, but I think it's solid, and I give it a B+.
I actually liked this one. Odo is masterfully played by Rene Auberjonois. He somehow infuses this character with the blank face with deep emotions. This is the first beginning clue to his destiny. It's not much, but both Odo and DS9 are finding clues to their paths. The story is somehow touching too, and also continues the path of ambiguity for the characters and their actions that helped define the series. Croden, played by Cliff DeYoung, is a character that I liked. I believed the friendship of necessity that developed between him and Odo.
Real emotions and real ideas. These are keys to DS9 and they begin to be found here. I wouldn't call it a great episode, but I think it's solid, and I give it a B+.
Captive Pursuit is a really interesting one, it's good to see O'Brien have likable material. I know they never confirmed it on screen, but I think in one of the scripts in the future mentioned that the Jem'Hadar' cloak was similar to Tosk's. It even suggested that it may have been a gift from the Founders, in return for membership (or at least at first.) Obviously, they never went with it though.
Move Along Home, again, like Babel, interesting character beats; watch how each character sings along differently to Allamaraine. However, the rest is nonsense.
The Nagus has the great Godfather parody, but again there isn't much else there. There are some good Ferengi episodes, but this isn't one of them.
Vortex is another step in developing Odo's backstory. A lot of what he would become came from this episode, and one or two hints towards Changelings were there too I also think the story of Croden and his daughter was quite nicely played.
Move Along Home, again, like Babel, interesting character beats; watch how each character sings along differently to Allamaraine. However, the rest is nonsense.
The Nagus has the great Godfather parody, but again there isn't much else there. There are some good Ferengi episodes, but this isn't one of them.
Vortex is another step in developing Odo's backstory. A lot of what he would become came from this episode, and one or two hints towards Changelings were there too I also think the story of Croden and his daughter was quite nicely played.
Just watched the Visionary...
It actually occurred to me when I first watched it when the show was still on air. Why was the senior staff aside from Bashir, Odo and O'Brien on duty in OPS like it was regular day at 2am?
One could say they were up there because Miles warned them about his visit to the runabout escaping DS9. But then why was Miles in bed?
With the imminent destruction of the station, I wouldn't go off to bed to rest.
It actually occurred to me when I first watched it when the show was still on air. Why was the senior staff aside from Bashir, Odo and O'Brien on duty in OPS like it was regular day at 2am?
One could say they were up there because Miles warned them about his visit to the runabout escaping DS9. But then why was Miles in bed?
With the imminent destruction of the station, I wouldn't go off to bed to rest.
Original promos for Battle Lines:
What a grim fate for Kai Opaka. I've always like this character, played with great dignity, empathy, and mystery by Camille Saviola. But perhaps she was too good and saintly to make a good dramatic character. Still, I wish they'd used her a little more before she got this fate. In general I'd say this episode is only so-so, but Kira's grief over losing Opaka twice give it some emotional heft.
Rating: C+
What a grim fate for Kai Opaka. I've always like this character, played with great dignity, empathy, and mystery by Camille Saviola. But perhaps she was too good and saintly to make a good dramatic character. Still, I wish they'd used her a little more before she got this fate. In general I'd say this episode is only so-so, but Kira's grief over losing Opaka twice give it some emotional heft.
Rating: C+
Original promos for The Storyteller:
Does this one fit with what we later learn about the Bajorans? Doesn't seem like it does. It reminds me a little of the TOS episode "The Paradise Syndrome," but in general it makes a lot less sense and had much less emotional power than that classic but flawed episode.
This is one of the weakest DS9 episodes, even though it has a few mildly amusing moments.
Rating: D+
Does this one fit with what we later learn about the Bajorans? Doesn't seem like it does. It reminds me a little of the TOS episode "The Paradise Syndrome," but in general it makes a lot less sense and had much less emotional power than that classic but flawed episode.
This is one of the weakest DS9 episodes, even though it has a few mildly amusing moments.
Rating: D+
Original promos for "Progress":
This one has a touching performance by Brian Keith. Kira again faces moral problems, and does what she has to for the greater good. As often happens in DS9 we have a somewhat ambiguous ending. The subplot with Jake and Nog is reasonably good and kinda funny.
Perhaps some grade inflation here, but I give it a B.
This one has a touching performance by Brian Keith. Kira again faces moral problems, and does what she has to for the greater good. As often happens in DS9 we have a somewhat ambiguous ending. The subplot with Jake and Nog is reasonably good and kinda funny.
Perhaps some grade inflation here, but I give it a B.
The Foresaken and Dramatis Personae are two more flawed episodes, even if they have moments. I do love the intentional overacting of Sisko as he confronts Kira at the end of Dramatis Personae. But shooting the alien entity into space with that door open would have likely torn of their arms! Same flaw is found in Aliens, however, and I love that movie, and so perhaps I should be more forgiving.
Original promos for Duet:
One of the best episodes of the whole show. Amazing performances by Nana Visitor and guest star Harris Yulin.
My rating: A+
One of the most dramatic and emotionally-moving episodes of Star Trek ever made. The issues of guilt, societal and personal, are interwoven here in a masterful way. Amazing teleplay by Peter Allan Fields.
One of the best episodes of the whole show. Amazing performances by Nana Visitor and guest star Harris Yulin.
My rating: A+
One of the most dramatic and emotionally-moving episodes of Star Trek ever made. The issues of guilt, societal and personal, are interwoven here in a masterful way. Amazing teleplay by Peter Allan Fields.
Harris Yulin was beyond amazing in this episode.
Often overlooked in Duet: the rapport between Kira and Odo. Excellent episode.
I went back and rewatched the first two seasons. Now that I'm an educator, I'm appalled with Keiko. She's a horrible teacher. She's fine with Jake, but she needs to be more considerate of the Bajoran community. She was stubbornly rigid at times, even when Sisko tried to warn her about Bajoran's perspectives.
I think the episode was meant to make Keiko and Winn extremes, which put Sisko in the moderate middle, along with Kira eventually.
In the Hands of the Prophets is another great episode. It's not as emotionally searing as Duet, but it's not intended to be. In terms of it being thought-provoking, and setting the direction for the series, I think I might even give it another A+. Louise Fletcher does an amazing job as Winn imho. Creepy! And yet there's a tiny shred of me that is somehow still slightly sympathetic to her, and that tiny thread remains for the next six seasons.....
What I liked about DS9 from the beginning was the fact that the characters were not perfect, in TNG and I suppose to a certain extent Voyager the main crew were a little too perfect and I always found it difficult to relate to those characters, DS9 though had characters that seemed the most human and I liked way more characters over the DS9 run then Voyager and TNG combined.
I think the show suffered from having no identity of its own early on with the writers possibly not understanding which direction to take the show. I think once they knew where they were going from the 3rd series onwards the show had its own identity which in my opinion had the best humour, emotions and action of all of trek.
I think the show suffered from having no identity of its own early on with the writers possibly not understanding which direction to take the show. I think once they knew where they were going from the 3rd series onwards the show had its own identity which in my opinion had the best humour, emotions and action of all of trek.
Well, I think there were several different problems. The first, of course, is that the stories were written in a generic SF mode better suited to TNG. Second, most of the characters weren't adequately filled out beyond Kira, Quark, and O'Brien. One of the reasons I love Auberjonois' performance in Duet is that he finds something in the script that he can put some meat on. On paper, his scenes with Kira don't give him much more personality than a dedicated detective. Auberjonois' performance makes it seem as if Odo is personally involved in Kira's interests and well-being. Conversely, Brooks did well when he played "Dad," but was more uneven as the "commander." I don't think there was much concept behind Bashir or Dax to differentiate them from the doctors and science offers of previous series. Third, the new setting was still a challenge for storywriters.
I think Season Two was stronger than most people remember, but we'll get to that soon.
What I did like about pretty much all characters in DS9 was that they all had their flaws in their own way, Sisco took things personally (like the marquee incidents), kira was quick to anger, Odo did not have much in the way of inter-personal skills, Bashir was way overconfident in his abilities.
I will admit that one of my favourite characters in DS9 was actually Nog, to see him go from where he was in the pilot to becoming a very good starfleet officer in his own way.
Since I started my own re-watch a few months ago most of season 1 is still recent in my head so I can still share a few thoughts:-
Emissary - Solid pilot which I enjoyed more than TNG or Voyager mainly because it was different, in the pilot the station was 'broken' and not fit for purpose and getting the station to the wormhole in that condition showed that miles could be a good engineer since we did not really see that during his TNG run.
Past Prologue - this was largely a forgettable to me, in fact I barely do it's like my brain tried to forget it.
A man alone - This episode did show for me just how alone odo was, the bajoran's were just so ready to turn on odo I hated the bajoran crowd
but it also showed that odo was not really going to 'help himself' because of the way he would always handle things.
Babel - this episode never really got me for some reason, but it did serve to remind the viewers of the 'dangers' of the station and seeing odo and quark trying to run the station was funny and worth it to watch.
Captive pursuit - I must admit I did like this episode since I always felt that o'brien was always supposed to be the character you could relate to (which is why I liked most of his episodes) but this was also something that was outside of his normal scope of his duty, he was a NCO so while a senior NCO he would not have had much in the way of first contact practice, but also because of how he handled it, he took the side of the 'little guy' something that I doubt many senior officers with first contact practice would have done.
Q-less - now this was another episode I did not like, it was one of those episodes where I felt that the show was 'trying' to hard to gain viewers by having both Vash and Q there, in fact you could have not had Q and the episode still would not have played out much differently. When a episode tries too hard its always a turn off for me.
Dax - This episode was ok, but mainly because it gave us an insight to trill society and a idea of how hosts work from host to host, even if it did seem to contradict trills appearance in TNG (its been a while so I may be mis-remembering)
Move along home - I never liked this episode at all, in fact I usually skip it when I do a re-watch as because between a alien I don't take to and a almost pointless story its just not worth the time.
The nagus - I will admit that I don't actually remember the details of this episode, but as a general rule I never really took to the ferengi episodes, I know that other do so it's just my personal tastes.
Vortex - this was a ok episode and I enjoyed seeing odo's softer side for a change and the fact that his feelings will actually occasionally override his sense of 'justice'
Battle lines - there was just something not right with this one for me, I think it was because I was supposed 'feel' something for the kai but I did not so her remaining on the planet did not hit me, plus at this time in the series I did not care enough about Kira either to feel for her grief either.
The storyteller - while fun to watch o'brien and bashir together for really the first time, but the story did not make much sense to me as you mean to tell me that the cardassians allowed this 'practice' during the occupation?
Progress - a nice episode putting kira on the opposite side of the fence then she was used to, but I liked the b plot with Jake and nog more that the main plot for some reason.
If wishes where horses - a fairly forgettable episode in my opinion it felt cringe worthy from the start.
Forsaken - Another episode where I felt they tried too hard by bringing back Lwaxana Troi
Dramatis Personae - I have never really been keen on episodes where the whole crew is 'taken over' by a unknown entity.
Duet - now this was a episode to enjoy, one of the best episodes in the series and for the most part it was just 2 people in a room talking, I always felt DS9 was at its best when it came to emotional episodes plus some great acting all round.
In the Hands of the Prophets - now considering I hated Winn (I guess that was great acting on her part) and the fact I wanted to punch the TV everytime she made an appearance its a episode I never like watching, I mean can winn honestly expect keiko to teach something that she does not believe in.
OK so thats upto date if you managed to make it to the end you deserve a cookie.
I will admit that one of my favourite characters in DS9 was actually Nog, to see him go from where he was in the pilot to becoming a very good starfleet officer in his own way.
Since I started my own re-watch a few months ago most of season 1 is still recent in my head so I can still share a few thoughts:-
Emissary - Solid pilot which I enjoyed more than TNG or Voyager mainly because it was different, in the pilot the station was 'broken' and not fit for purpose and getting the station to the wormhole in that condition showed that miles could be a good engineer since we did not really see that during his TNG run.
Past Prologue - this was largely a forgettable to me, in fact I barely do it's like my brain tried to forget it.
A man alone - This episode did show for me just how alone odo was, the bajoran's were just so ready to turn on odo I hated the bajoran crowd
but it also showed that odo was not really going to 'help himself' because of the way he would always handle things.Babel - this episode never really got me for some reason, but it did serve to remind the viewers of the 'dangers' of the station and seeing odo and quark trying to run the station was funny and worth it to watch.
Captive pursuit - I must admit I did like this episode since I always felt that o'brien was always supposed to be the character you could relate to (which is why I liked most of his episodes) but this was also something that was outside of his normal scope of his duty, he was a NCO so while a senior NCO he would not have had much in the way of first contact practice, but also because of how he handled it, he took the side of the 'little guy' something that I doubt many senior officers with first contact practice would have done.
Q-less - now this was another episode I did not like, it was one of those episodes where I felt that the show was 'trying' to hard to gain viewers by having both Vash and Q there, in fact you could have not had Q and the episode still would not have played out much differently. When a episode tries too hard its always a turn off for me.
Dax - This episode was ok, but mainly because it gave us an insight to trill society and a idea of how hosts work from host to host, even if it did seem to contradict trills appearance in TNG (its been a while so I may be mis-remembering)
Move along home - I never liked this episode at all, in fact I usually skip it when I do a re-watch as because between a alien I don't take to and a almost pointless story its just not worth the time.
The nagus - I will admit that I don't actually remember the details of this episode, but as a general rule I never really took to the ferengi episodes, I know that other do so it's just my personal tastes.
Vortex - this was a ok episode and I enjoyed seeing odo's softer side for a change and the fact that his feelings will actually occasionally override his sense of 'justice'
Battle lines - there was just something not right with this one for me, I think it was because I was supposed 'feel' something for the kai but I did not so her remaining on the planet did not hit me, plus at this time in the series I did not care enough about Kira either to feel for her grief either.
The storyteller - while fun to watch o'brien and bashir together for really the first time, but the story did not make much sense to me as you mean to tell me that the cardassians allowed this 'practice' during the occupation?
Progress - a nice episode putting kira on the opposite side of the fence then she was used to, but I liked the b plot with Jake and nog more that the main plot for some reason.
If wishes where horses - a fairly forgettable episode in my opinion it felt cringe worthy from the start.
Forsaken - Another episode where I felt they tried too hard by bringing back Lwaxana Troi
Dramatis Personae - I have never really been keen on episodes where the whole crew is 'taken over' by a unknown entity.
Duet - now this was a episode to enjoy, one of the best episodes in the series and for the most part it was just 2 people in a room talking, I always felt DS9 was at its best when it came to emotional episodes plus some great acting all round.
In the Hands of the Prophets - now considering I hated Winn (I guess that was great acting on her part) and the fact I wanted to punch the TV everytime she made an appearance its a episode I never like watching, I mean can winn honestly expect keiko to teach something that she does not believe in.
OK so thats upto date if you managed to make it to the end you deserve a cookie.
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She didn't. She was counting on Keiko's reaction as part of her manipulation others to become the Kai.
well what I meant it was a manipulation that people should have been able to see through easily.
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