Another Re-watching DS9 thread (spoilers)

[benjaminh]

I'm about the same age as Star Trek. When I was born in late 1964, preproduction on "The Cage" was underway and filming was about to begin. In the late 1960s, one of my babysitters dressed me up as Spock for Halloween when I was about five! But I didn't start to seriously watch TOS until about 1974, when I began to watch it almost every night at 6 on KTLA channel 5 in LA. When TNG premiered, when I was in college, I didn't like it at first, but by the time I was in grad school a few years later I was an avid watcher, and eventually came to like it as much as TOS. When DS9 premiered, my future wife and I watched it sometimes, and liked it ok, but the first year was more of a miss for me than a hit. Then I went overseas for many months, and by the time I got back I'd lost track of the show. I tried to watch a few episodes, but by then was mostly lost.

Ironically it was my son who finally got me into DS9 about 8 years ago. He and I had watched all of TOS, TNG, and then Voyager, but I told him that I hadn't really gotten into DS9, and even (to my horror now) said a few negative things about the show. But in spite of that he got into the show and watched it by himself, and eventually convinced the whole family that in some ways DS9 was the best of all of the Treks—at least after the first two years. With his guidance on skipping some of the dud episodes, we've watched most of DS9 three or four times. And some favorite episodes we've watched maybe six or seven times. That's a lot, but still less than the dozens of times I've seen a few favorite episodes of TOS!

Like almost all DS9 fans, I was deeply disappointed that Deep Space Nine was not remastered for HD. I've almost completely given up hope, although with the new show being the cornerstone of CBS All-Access, I have a tiny flicker of hope that they could remaster the show as part of the lure for Trek fans to go to that site and pay for it every month. If All-Access were the exclusive place to get remasters of DS9 and Voyager, a lot of Trek fans would sign up imho.

Anyway, as the excitement for the new Trek show mounts, I've decided to try a re-watch of DS9. I'm now on the 11th episode of the first season, and there have been a couple that I don't think I've ever seen. The only problem is, some parts of the first season seem about as weak as I remember them. But even the weak episodes are interesting—for the most part.

For this thread I'm going to try to post some mini-reviews and a few thoughts on various episodes as I go through it. Hope some other DS9 fans will chime in with their thoughts....

 

[benjaminh]

This 2-minute video of Avery Brooks talking about "Far Beyond the Stars" shows why he is one of the favorites for fans. He brought his quiet intensity to the character of Benjamin Sisko. This particular episode is a great argument for why Deep Space Nine should be remastered.

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[benjaminh]

Herman Zimmerman did a great job designing the station itself. Below it can be seen in HD from the TNG episode Birthright:

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[stardream]

We have just started our own re watch again. We just made it to Season 2. I am enjoying every minute with only a few exceptions. I was hoping someone would start a thread like this. I have been eager to discuss things again.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I won't argue that there was consistent quality in the first season. Several episodes were retooled, second-hand TNG scripts that did not align properly with the new show's characters. The pilot set out to establish Sisko as a different lead for the series, but more often than not, Sisko was a generic Starfleet type, just a little more easily annoyed. Even so, there is enough to make the first season unique from TNG and compelling on its own.

 

[benjaminh]

Probably almost all of you know about this book, but the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion, by Terry Erdmann (with Paula Block), is highly recommended for all Niners. It has outstanding behind the scenes essays on every episode:

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine_Companion

 

[Seven of Five]

That and the TNG Companion were my bibles when I was younger. The DS9 one is the longer, more informative one I would say, and was a fascinating read.

I hope you enjoy watching again.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In my current viewing I'm near the start of season 2 and skipping fewer eps than usual. So this was my first time in a while seeing episodes like Second Sight and Sanctuary.

Sanctuary struck me this time as a great idea for an episode executed poorly and hamfistedly. The first true anti-TNG episode of the series. They set up a situation the Ent-D might have come across and exposed it to cold reality and real prejudice. People want to get rid of refugees because they are ugly, their skin flakes and their males are not socially adjusted, the same way refugees fleeing tyranny are reacted to in the real world. I only wish they had a better script to realize this theme.

 

[benjaminh]

Hope the rest of you will share your thoughts as I go through the episodes....

"Emissary," first aired January 3rd, 1993.

23 years ago I watched the premiere "movie" of Deep Space Nine with my future wife in Santa Barbara, California, where we were then in grad school. Although I put quotes around it, I really do think this was a good Star Trek movie in terms of its ambition, sets, emotions, special effects, and so on. I've never exactly loved Emissary in the half dozen or so times I've watched it, but I do like it very much. What the people in front of and behind the cameras accomplished on several levels was a significant reinvention of Star Trek, while still remaining loyal in most ways to that universe.

The Next Generation, as we all know, had been a huge hit for about three years when they gave the greenlight to DS9. Next Gen was known for many things, including:

-no conflict between major characters
-relentless optimism and a bright, upscale, futuristic hotel look
-no serialized stories

I feel like there are maybe a few more things I could add to that list, but right from the beginning with Emissary DS9 is different. DS9 has:

-conflict between its characters
-a grittier and more ambivalent view of the future, and more shadowy lighting
-increasingly serialized stories.

That's all I have time for right now. I'll continue my review in a while....Feel free to chime in with thoughts, suggestions, your own review of Emissary, etc.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Emissary set itself apart by being about the series lead, his experiences, his struggles, and his personal journey.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Setting the show on Bajor was a stroke of genius. Because a planet recovering from a long torturous occupation is the one that's going to be most skeptical of Federation ideals.

 

[fireproof78]

Emissary set itself apart by being about the series lead, his experiences, his struggles, and his personal journey.

One of the things that I liked about Emissary was that it took the opportunity to use TNG as a counterpoint to frame itself against. It wasn't arbitrarily different but a distinct choice, reflected in Sisko and Picard's meeting.

As much as DS9 struggled to find its footing in the first couple of seaons, the set up was well done, showing Sisko, the burden he bears, as well as the differences between the station and the Enterprise D.

 

[PersonalResponsibility]

I just started a re-watch of DS9 after a TNG re-watch and I'm very pleased to find this thread.

Quark, to me, really understood what it meant to be a Ferengi (that was going to be core to a series) and the Ferengi he played was such a divergence from the typical Ferengi we witnessed in TNG. The "TNG Ferengi" were humorless/obvious, greedy, mean-spirited and lacked intelligence and real world sense. Quark really turned this narrative on top of itself and was a typical Ferengi in many ways, greed and the lust for profit, but he was also intelligent, conscientious, worldly and had apt "street smarts". This became apparent right away but particularly how he defended Odo in the episode "A Man Alone". This is really the start, for me, of the very entertaining and interesting relationship between Quark and Odo that is one of the highlights of the series.

I've also been reminded that of my favorite 4 characters this early on in the series (Sisko, Quark, Odo and Kira) only 1 is in Star Fleet. DS9 is such a unique series in the Star Trek canon and I can't wait to get through some more episodes.

 

[benjaminh]

I just started a re-watch of DS9 after a TNG re-watch and I'm very pleased to find this thread.

Quark, to me, really understood what it meant to be a Ferengi (that was going to be core to a series) and the Ferengi he played was such a divergence from the typical Ferengi we witnessed in TNG. The "TNG Ferengi" were humorless/obvious, greedy, mean-spirited and lacked intelligence and real world sense. Quark really turned this narrative on top of itself and was a typical Ferengi in many ways, greed and the lust for profit, but he was also intelligent, conscientious, worldly and had apt "street smarts". This became apparent right away but particularly how he defended Odo in the episode "A Man Alone". This is really the start, for me, of the very entertaining and interesting relationship between Quark and Odo that is one of the highlights of the series.

I've also been reminded that of my favorite 4 characters this early on in the series (Sisko, Quark, Odo and Kira) only 1 is in Star Fleet. DS9 is such a unique series in the Star Trek canon and I can't wait to get through some more episodes.

Yes, Quark is great. Armin Shimerman does an amazing job with this character starting with the first episode. The relationship between Oda and Quark is, underneath their hostility, somehow one of deep respect and friendship.

And speaking of ways that DS9 differs from TNG, here are two more: money and religion.

I tend to be a progressive guy, but the idea sometimes found in Trek that money doesn't exist in the future always seemed rather unrealistic to me. And having Quark and the bar there, without directly eliminating that, provides an obvious contrast. Religion previously in Trek was something for those alien others on strange planets, but here it's incorporated into the show in a complicated way. I'm not really a religious person myself, but I appreciate the interesting things and deeper meanings that this gives the show.

 

[benjaminh]

The USS Enterprise, was, of course, one of the main stars of TOS and TNG. And in a similar way Deep Space Nine, formerly the Cardassian station Terok Nor, is a star of our show. What a great job Herman Zimmerman did in designing this station! Probably all of you know this, but the station design is based in part on the facial ridges of the Cardassian. As an art historian, I can't resist putting two pictures side-by-side to try to show this visually....

 

[benjaminh]

Finally, let me try to do at least part of a short review of Emissary. First, I love the bookends of the two talks with Jean-Luc Picard. By this time the horrible disaster and death that Picard as Locutus was involved with has been almost papered over in Next Gen. The teaser right before the first meeting, with the spectacular recreation of the battle of Wolf 359, and the death of Sisko's wife, makes personal the pain that the war cost. Making Sisko almost an adversary of Picard at the start really adds some good tension to that scene, which again breaks from the past TNG idea that all the main cast members should get along.

When we get back to the station each of the main characters gets a good introduction, which is a tricky thing to do without bogging the show down. I like all the main characters, but as with PersonalR my favorites are (in no particular order) Kira, Oda, Sisko, and Quark.

The surreal wormwhole adventure with Sisko, with all of those mixed-up flashbacks, is for me both one of the strengths and weaknesses of this movie. In a few places to me it seems almost 2001-like—and I mean that as a compliment! But maybe it wears its heart a bit too much on its sleeve before we've gotten to know the character? Not sure. I ultimately like it, as it sets up a thread that will be carried through to the very end of the series.

Marc Alaimo makes the first of his wonderful appearances as Gul Dukat. A truly creepy villain. And the twists and turns he'll take us on the last few seasons will be amazing. This fan trailer features one of Dukat's famous speeches: "It always comes back to that, doesn't it? All my crimes. I'm such a monster, such an evil man...."

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[benjaminh]

The occupation of Bajor by the Cardassians raises the moral stakes for the show. Like many Trek fans, I think political relevance and historical references make Star Trek stronger. And this is a tradition, of course, that goes back to the start of the show. "Balance of Terror," for instance, references the Cold War, WW2 submarine movies, etc. "Chain of Command," with its "I see four lights!" is a direct quote from the re-eduction techniques of Soviet gulags. The Cardassians, of course, seem tinged at times with Nazi-like ideas and and techniques. All of these things make Star Trek richer and more relevant.

With DS9 they were careful to include dashes off all sorts of things, but they make it clear that they are not being too specific in terms of talking about a particular society or historical event.

Kira, wonderfully played throughout the show by Nana Visitor, is a hero—but she's also morally complicated. As a fighter in the resistance, we know that she's done things she feels mixed about....This moral ambiguity is another thing found in most of the characters in the show that's a big contrast with TNG. Picard: Always Good. Riker: Ditto. Troi: Ditto, etc. The characters in DS9 tend to be more complicated, even if the "good guys" are still that.

Odo has a strict code, but as we see in the flashback episode, he did things as well....

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The surreal wormwhole adventure with Sisko, with all of those mixed-up flashbacks, is for me both one of the strengths and weaknesses of this movie. In a few places to me it seems almost 2001-like—and I mean that as a compliment! But maybe it wears its heart a bit too much on its sleeve before we've gotten to know the character? Not sure. I ultimately like it, as it sets up a thread that will be carried through to the very end of the series.

I have always made this connection, although it was more how TMP and Encounter at Farpoint wanted to be cerebral. Going beyond that is where I think Emissary exceed the latter two: it didn't stop at saying that making contact diffused conflict and created understanding. Those whom Sisko encounters challenge him to prove his intentions, to reveal who he is. I think it was beautiful.

 

[benjaminh]

I have always made this connection, although it was more how TMP and Encounter at Farpoint wanted to be cerebral. Going beyond that is where I think Emissary exceed the latter two: it didn't stop at saying that making contact diffused conflict and created understanding. Those whom Sisko encounters challenge him to prove his intentions, to reveal who he is. I think it was beautiful.

Well said.++

My overall rating on Emissary as a Trek movie, which I think it is, would probably be an A-. Sure, there's some grade inflation in that, since I'm a lifelong Trek fan. But my rating for Encounter at Farpoint would be more like a C+. And so when a Star Trek episode or movie is weak, like almost all other fans, I'm not afraid to say it.

I really wish CBS would remaster at least the best of DS9 for HD, starting with this movie. But what is the best of DS9? Well, a few years ago a fan named "Bolty" at blu-ray.com created a wonderful list that I think captures in c. 78 episodes the best of DS9. It turns the show into almost a gigantic sci-fi miniseries to watch it this way. Anyway, here's his list with his commentary:

1. Emissary part 1--pilot
2. Emissary part 2-- pilot
19. Duet--cardassian war criminal……..my fan choice #1
20. Hands of the Prophets--intro Kai Winn, season 1 ender
21. Homecoming--Bajoran coup trilogy 1,season 2 opener
22. Circle--part 2
23. Siege--part 3
39. Blood Oath--re-intro Kang, Kor and Koloth
40. Maquis part 1--intro of the maquis movement
41. Maquis part 2--
43. Crossover--first “mirror” episode
46. Jem’ Hadar--beginning of the Founders arc, season 2 ender
47. Search part 1--looking for the Jem’Hadar, season 3 opener
48. Search part 2--
51. Second Skin--Cardassian believes kira is his daughter…..my fan choice #2
55. Defiant--Riker returns……..my fan choice #3
60. Heart of Stone--founders trick Odo into professing love for Kira….my fan choice #4
65. Improbable Cause--major precursor to Founder war part 1
67. The Die is Cast--part 2
66. Thru the Looking Glass--part 2 of “mirror” arc (filmed in-between previous two-parter)
72. Adversary--season 3 ender, sets up Founder infiltration of federation.
73. Way of the Warrior part 1--start of Klingon civil war, Worf intro, season 4 opener
74. Way of the Warrior part 2
76. The Visitor--”old Jake” seeks his lost father……….my fan choice #5
79. Starship Down--iconic battle with Jem’ Hadar
80. Little Green Men--classic ferengi comedy episode…..my fan favorite #6
81. Sword of Kahless--part of “original klingons” arc
83. Homefront--founders infiltrate earth part 1
84. Paradise Lost--part 2
86. Return to Grace--key Dukat/Kira episode…..my fan favorite #7
87. Sons of Mogh--farwell to Kurn…..my fan favorite #8
92. Shattered Mirror--”mirror arc” part 3
94. For the Cause--key Maquis episode
96. To the Death--strong Jem’ Hadar episode
98. Broken Link--Odo becomes Human, season 4 ender
99. Apocalypse Rising--season 5 opener Klingon/Dominion
100. The Ship--Dominion face-off
102. Nor the Battle to the Strong--good rare Jake episode involving Klingons
104. Trials and Tribbleations--'Nuff said
111. For the Uniform--Maquis arc involving Eddington.
112. In Pugatory's Shadow--part 1 of classic Garak/DominionWorf prison story
113. By Inferno's Light--part 2 outstanding conclusion with Cardassia switching sides among many other themes.
119. Soldiers of the Empire--strong Worf/Martok Klingon episode
120. Children of Time--awesome Odo/alternate reality episode--my fan favorite choice******
121. Blaze of glory--Maquis/Eddington wrap up
122. Empok Nor--outstanding O'Brien/Garak episode--my fan favorite choice***********
124. Call to Arms--season 5 ender and official Dominion War start
125. Time to stand--season 6 opener DS9 under Dominion occupation & Sisko on secret mission
126. Rocks and Shoals-- conclusion to Sisko's mission, great microcosm of war story
128. Behind the Lines--the 'partisan' resistance on occupied DS9 begins in earnest
129. Favor the Bold--Sisko decides to retake DS9 as a symbolic victory in a war going badly
130. Sacrifice of Angels--part 2--Feds retake DS9 with much loss of life
131. You Are Cordially Invited--Worf/Dax wedding--My fan favorite choice
137. Far beyond the Stars--Fantastic period piece/alternate reality episode--my fan favorite******
138. One Little Ship--"Ant-Man" sized crew takes on Jem'Hadar
142. Inquisition--first "Section 31" episode
143. In the Pale Moonlight--Sisko makes morally questionable decision to save the federation, a great Garak episode (is there any other kind?)
146. Valiant--nice Jake/Nog episode with young crew fighting Dominion
150. Tears of the Prophets--farewell to Jadzia--season 6 ender
151. Image in the sand--season 7 opener parts--Sisko pursues his destiny
152. Shadows & Symbols--part 2 of sisko origin
157. Once More Into the Breach--wrap-up to the Kor "ancient warriors" arc featuring Dominion
158. Siege of AR-558--classic war is hell episode, very well done
162. Emperer's New Cloak--final "mirror" episode
166. Inter Arma Enim silent Leges--classic political treachery episode--my fan favorite*********
167-176 are the ten episode wrap to the war and the series and I don't think you can leave any out....

 

[benjaminh]

The first season of DS9, as you can see from that list, gets only three episodes picked as being part of the best of the show.

If I had to add one more episode from the first season, however, I think it would be the first one after the premiere, because "Past Prologue" features the introduction of a favorite supporting character, Garak. Andrew Robinson does a fabulous job as "plain, simple Garak," and starts to show the other side of the Cardassians, rather like Quark shows the other side of the Ferengi. Here's a little interview with Andrew Robinson:

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"Past Prologue" is also a good episode for Kira, providing conflict with both Sisko and the Bajoran Tahna.

Anyway, I guess I'll rate Past Prologue a B+.

But one thing you can tell for sure is that they can't spend money on the individual episodes in anything like the way they did on that premiere. Emissary cost about $12 million dollars, which would be about $20+ million today when adjusting for inflation. That's only slight less than what they spent on The Wrath of Khan! Individual episodes, in contrast, had a baseline budget of maybe $2 million back then, which would be c. $3m today. And so, for the first season we have a fair number of "bottle shows" that are set in the station and rarely leave it, largely because they broke the bank on the premiere. "Duet" was a bottle show that became a classic, and one of the best episodes of the series, but most of the other bottle episodes this season are only so-so—and sometimes worse than that. But Past Prologue is a keeper for me, because of plain, simple Garak.