Announcing STAR TREK: DTI and other CLB news

[William Leisner]

But is there anything about April that requires he be white? Is there anything that requires he be English?

Hey, argue with them, not me. I'm the one who's in favor of colorblind casting in those debates.

As an example, years ago I wanted Dakota Fanning to play Ender if an Ender's Game movie were ever made. Chloe Moretz would be a really good choice for Ender now. Never mind that Orson Scott Card's Ender is a boy. I think a girl would fill the role better.

Well, sure, like I said, if it's an adaptation, that's a distinct reality and anything can be changed.

Much like your own fierce protests when people have suggested Caucasian actresses for Trys in the casting threads, eh?

Now, that's entirely different. We're not talking about casting an alternate version of the character for an adaptation, we're talking about finding a good match for how the character is intended to appear in the books.

It's always different when it's your own daughter...

 

[Captain Robert April]

Also, people's voices change over time, getting deeper and fuller with age. Shatner's voice now is significantly lower than it was 45 years ago, less nasal and more throaty. (Though maybe that was partly due to advances in recording technology as well; older or cruder recording tech that doesn't capture the deeper tones of the voice tends to make it sound more nasal.)

What I always found impressive, though, was that when Shatner did the "Restaurant Enterprise" sketch for Saturday Night Live in 1986, he actually did a very good job of recreating his TOS-era Kirk voice and delivery rather than using his movie-era Kirk voice. So I think Shatner still could play TOS-era Kirk's personality and mannerisms, even if he couldn't match the timbre anymore.

In Shatner's case, I think it's all situational. On SNL, and on his current show, $#*! My Dad Says, he's on stage projecting to an audience (granted, with the assistance of microphones), which is the same level of energy he brought to TOS. In between, his acting style relaxed some, became a bit more intimate, especially with later productions like Boston Legal, and most especially when doing voice work, when you're only projecting to a microphone two inches away. The fact that he's around sixty pounds heavier probably doesn't help things.

In Nimoy's case, I think the main culprit is major dental work. The last time we saw him with all his own teeth was the last scene in TSFS. Probably the same situation with Connery.

I think in Doohan's case, it was more a case of forgetting between movies just how to do Scotty's voice (it's different when you're doing it every few weeks instead of every couple of years).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think in Doohan's case, it was more a case of forgetting between movies just how to do Scotty's voice (it's different when you're doing it every few weeks instead of every couple of years).

Which is the exact opposite of, say, Steve Smith from The Red Green Show. He's played Red Green for so long that he actually says it's easier to speak in his Red voice (vs. his own speaking voice) because it's easier on his throat. Which is odd, given how gravelly Red talks...

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't know that April will appear in a future movie

It's rumoured that in an early version of the STXI story, the Kelvin was the Enterprise and Captain Robau was Robert April. Paramount supposedly decreed that the Enterprise cannot be blown up in the first movie.

 

[Christopher]

In Shatner's case, I think it's all situational.

No; people's voices do change in middle age. That's universal. The cartilage in the larynx hardens, muscles weaken, soft tissues swell and make the voice deeper or rougher.

http://www.ncvs.org/ncvs/tutorials/voiceprod/tutorial/changes.html

Compare recordings of just about anyone's voice at 30, 50, and 70, and you'll notice changes. Heck, the progression in Shatner's voice has been very clear. Even in the '70s, his voice was subtly fuller and deeper than it tended to be in the '60s. Then it was deeper yet in the '80s and '90s, and now it's as deep and rough as it's ever been.

I noticed the same thing with Patrick Stewart in his Macbeth that aired on PBS recently. His voice today also has a rougher texture and deeper undertones than it had in 1987, or in his appearance as Claudius in the BBC's 1980 adaptation of Hamlet. And as someone remarked above, the same goes for Sean Connery. It happens to everybody.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Compare recordings of just about anyone's voice at 30, 50, and 70, and you'll notice changes.

For a great example of that, Steve Coogan and Rob Brydon discuss the changes in Michael Caine's voice between the 60s and today in their new BBC show The Trip. (Warning: Bad language.)

 

[David cgc]

I don't know that April will appear in a future movie

It's rumoured that in an early version of the STXI story, the Kelvin was the Enterprise and Captain Robau was Robert April. Paramount supposedly decreed that the Enterprise cannot be blown up in the first movie.

I'm genuinely not sure if some of the people who were upset about the design alterations of the film would've been happier or angrier to see a faithful TOS Enterprise in the beginning of the film, only to have it destroyed and replaced by an alternate Enterprise-A.

 

[Christopher]

^They would've been just as upset to see the Enterprise existing in 2233 when the reference books say it was built in 2245.

But it would've been one heck of a symbolic way to say "This isn't the same old Star Trek." A bit too blatant, in fact, which may be part of why they dropped it.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

It's rumoured that in an early version of the STXI story, the Kelvin was the Enterprise and Captain Robau was Robert April.

I'd have been happy if they'd kept the Kelvin but included April as its captain. April's death, decades too soon, could have been the deviation in time that delayed the Enterprise's construction (presuming April had been part of the program that developed the Constitution-class starships.)

 

[kkozoriz1]

<removed due to being off topic>

 

[Christopher]

The best way to do "This is an All New Star Trek" would have been for Kirrk to save Vulcan but lose Earth. For a movie designed to bring in new fans this would have gotten their attention to a much greater degree. The new fans knew of Vulcan for what, 10-15 minutes?

Audiences don't identify with planets, they identify with people. What made the loss of Vulcan meaningful to the new viewers was its impact on Spock.

 

[kkozoriz1]

<Removed do to being off topic>

 

[Christopher]

Whom they only knew as an alien guy. Everyone knows Earth.

You don't have to have prior familiarity with something to care about its loss in a story. Think about standalone stories that don't have decades of history behind them. Think about Casablanca. We didn't have any prior knowledge of Rick and Ilsa. We didn't have any reason to care about them before the movie started. Everything we needed to know to care about their relationship and their sacrifice was given to us within the movie itself.

And what does any of this have to do with DTI or my other writing? I'm sick of the way people who didn't like the movie insist on hijacking unrelated threads and rehashing their arguments against the movie for the five thousandth time. If you want to complain about the movie, do it in the Trek XI forum. Or better yet, just get over it and move on with your life.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I think in Doohan's case, it was more a case of forgetting between movies just how to do Scotty's voice (it's different when you're doing it every few weeks instead of every couple of years).

Which is the exact opposite of, say, Steve Smith from The Red Green Show. He's played Red Green for so long that he actually says it's easier to speak in his Red voice (vs. his own speaking voice) because it's easier on his throat. Which is odd, given how gravelly Red talks...

I can relate. Red's voice is actually very easy and kinda fun.

 

[Christopher]

Well, I'm glad there's a copyediting process. Today, while doing one more editing pass on the DTI manuscript, I discovered something that I and everyone else involved somehow managed to miss despite multiple passes through the book: A scene begins saying that Character A only knows Character B by reputation and has never met him, and then three paragraphs later has Character A telling Character B, "We've met." What's more, later in the book, I elaborate on that first meeting. This is a hazard of making stuff up as you go. Sometimes you change your mind about something along the way, and if you're not careful, you can forget to change what you wrote at the start. I don't think I've ever had it happen within three paragraphs, though.

The thing is, even with multiple eyes going over a manuscript time after time, there are a heck of a lot of words and ideas in there, and it's hard to catch every one. Usually one person will catch what someone else missed, but sometimes something slips by everyone. Anyway, I finally caught it and it's fixed.

I also found another subtle inconsistency arising from a similar cause, a matter of timing, but on reflection I decided it was fine the way it is. After all, not every character in the book necessarily experiences events in the same order.

 

[captcalhoun]

maybe in those three paragraphs, history changed so they'd previously met...

 

[Therin of Andor]

The last time we saw him with all his own teeth was the last scene in TSFS.

If it hadn't been for David Marcus and his careless use of protomatter in the matrix, Spock's newly generated teeth wouldn't have rotted so fast.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I don't know that April will appear in a future movie

It's rumoured that in an early version of the STXI story, the Kelvin was the Enterprise and Captain Robau was Robert April. Paramount supposedly decreed that the Enterprise cannot be blown up in the first movie.

Yeah but that's only for the TOS Enterprise you can only blow that up in the third movie but, if it's the TNG Enterprise you can blow it up (well half of it and crash the other half) in the first movie it shows up in.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

maybe in those three paragraphs, history changed so they'd previously met...

It's Hypertime!

 

[Captain Robert April]

I don't know that April will appear in a future movie

It's rumoured that in an early version of the STXI story, the Kelvin was the Enterprise and Captain Robau was Robert April. Paramount supposedly decreed that the Enterprise cannot be blown up in the first movie.

Yeah but that's only for the TOS Enterprise you can only blow that up in the third movie but, if it's the TNG Enterprise you can blow it up (well half of it and crash the other half) in the first movie it shows up in.

Well, there is the issue of Nero emerging from that alleged black hole a good twelve years before the TOS Enterprise was even built...