Spoilers Andor season one

[The Nth Doctor]

Another fantastic episode even if it was "just" a set-up episode. I especially loved the stark contrasts of switching back and forth between the sweeping, natural beauty of Aldhani and the sterilized blankness of Coruscant, a disparity stronger than the differences in livelihoods of Mon Mothma and Syril Karn's mother.

Also...Faye Marsay! I only just found out last week she was going to appear on this show so I'm thrilled she has such a strong, important role. Even if, as others have predicted, the heist goes very badly next week. I've been a huge fan of hers for years between Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, and Black Mirror (the only episode of the show I watch repeatedly!). Maybe we'll get lucky and she survives along with Cassian.

 

[Tuskin38]

I recognized her from GoT but not Doctor Who.

 

[fireproof78]

I have no idea who this person is.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I recognized her from GoT but not Doctor Who.

She was in The Twelfth Doctor episode "Last Christmas," the one with the dream crabs and Nick Frost as Santa. And should've been Clara's final episode.

I have no idea who this person is.

She plays Vel, the Rebel leader on Aldhani.

 

[fireproof78]

She plays Vel, the Rebel leader on Aldhani.

Outside of that. Even watching some parts of the 12th Doctor.

 

[Booji]

This was definitely the best ep so far. Looking forward to next week.

 

[Set Harth]

Did we just learn that Cassian and Han both served on Mimban around the same time?

Maybe that's what was intended based on the birth year previously put out for Cassian, but that's no longer valid if we go by his age in the flashbacks ( where he's clearly not four or less ). So it doesn't look like it's even the same Mimban engagement.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I went to get a drink and went to settle down for the heist and it was over, lol.

It's a good show, but it's not Star Wars. This is a political/crime thriller series written for adults wearing a Star Wars suit. I'll keep watching, but the creative conceits are so different that I don't really think this belongs in the Star Wars universe.

I had similar thoughts watching it. Not so much that it doesn't belong but that you could change the setting and it would work pretty well as a contemporary thriller type series. Even the end credit music is atypical for Star Wars.

A
Also...Faye Marsay! ... Game of Thrones

Of course! Knew she was familiar, I've seen the others but this is what I was remembering.

 

[Xerxes82]

It must be so much fun to be a set dresser in this universe. A poster on Reddit took (or found) some stills from Luthen's shop. Mandalorian armor, a Twi'lek kalikori, what looks to be an armor based on the dark side Starkiller from The Force Unleashed, Indiana Jones whip encased in a block of carbonite, and a pair of holocrons (one Jedi, one Sith). Plus I saw what looked like the frame of a Gungan energy shield at the front of the shop.

So many great little nods and callouts hiding in there. Good stuff!

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, we got the reveal of the female character that an upcoming Vintage Collection action figure will represent. Vel is getting a figure in the first wave that will contain Andor characters.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well, we got the reveal of the female character that an upcoming Vintage Collection action figure will represent. Vel is getting a figure in the first wave that will contain Andor characters.

Hell yeah! Then there's hope she'll survive to fight another day!

 

[cooleddie74]

Also: the Artillery Stormtrooper(Mortartrooper) from The Mandalorian. That was just a good choice.

 

[Sci]

So if there can be kid focused Star Wars stories why not adult focused Star Wars stories? Seems kind of silly to me to have one but the moment we trend towards the other it's "This isn't was Star Wars was meant to be." To me, Star Wars is very much a sandbox. I would say that the OT actually has three very disparate feeling stories that still hang together as part of the larger narrative. But, I would not say one style of story is more preferable in the Star Wars universe than another.

Also, why not have more variety in the Star Wars universe? Andor seems to be doing what Lucas wanted in terms of creating a more believable, lived in, type universe. Seems like a perfectly acceptable storytelling choice to me. As always, mileage will vary.

I mean, obviously you can have adult-focused Star Wars stories, because that's what's happening. But I would argue that when you do that, you take away the thing that probably defines Star Wars the most and makes it special -- I'm not aware of any other major space opera that's designed for children. And the story you end up with ends up feeling itself more like a generic adult political space opera -- Andor feels very much like The Expanse. So you end up with a franchise that feels less special, and an installment that feels generic.

Which is not to say that this can't be executed well. It can. But there's a point where it just feels... pointless.

A secondary thing is just that I'm tired of adults trying to appropriate children's adventure stories for themselves. Like the kids have settings of their own that don't belong to us.

 

[fireproof78]

I mean, obviously you can have adult-focused Star Wars stories, because that's what's happening. But I would argue that when you do that, you take away the thing that probably defines Star Wars the most and makes it special -- I'm not aware of any other major space opera that's designed for children. And the story you end up with ends up feeling itself more like a generic adult political space opera -- Andor feels very much like The Expanse. So you end up with a franchise that feels less special, and an installment that feels generic.

Which is not to say that this can't be executed well. It can. But there's a point where it just feels... pointless.

A secondary thing is just that I'm tired of adults trying to appropriate children's adventure stories for themselves. Like the kids have settings of their own that don't belong to us.

I think children are doing just fine and can handle some stories better than adults give them credit for. More than that, but the idea that STar Wars is only for kids is something I push hard against after Empire Strikes Back. ROTJ moved the other direction, but I think that Lucas keeps trying to have it both ways. In my opinion, having shows like Resistance and Andor are a better idea of allowing different flavors with Star Wars.

And, as far as pointlessness goes, well Star Wars and Star Trek are at the height of that so I'm less concerned about that.

Also: the Artillery Stormtrooper(Mortartrooper) from The Mandalorian. That was just a good choice.

Next on my list.

 

[Sci]

I think children are doing just fine and can handle some stories better than adults give them credit for.

Again, it's not a matter of what they can "handle." My critique isn't based on the idea that Andor is "too much" for kids. But, like, look at this latest episode: the major stakes are, members of the rebel cell don't trust Cassian; ISB agents having intra-office feuds over jurisdiction over crime investigations; Rael needs funding from Mon Motha but she's not sure how to launder it for him; and Motha being upset her husband invited her political rivals for dinner.

These are not the kinds of conflicts whose stakes the majority of children connect to.

More than that, but the idea that STar Wars is only for kids is something I push hard against after Empire Strikes Back. ROTJ moved the other direction, but I think that Lucas keeps trying to have it both ways.

I think The Empire Strikes Back is a brilliant example of how a story designed for children can have universal appeal, depth, and sophistication. But the emotional stakes of that film are still very much designed with children in mind.

In my opinion, having shows like Resistance and Andor are a better idea of allowing different flavors with Star Wars.

Sure, but in the process what really makes Star Wars meaningfully different from Star Trek? In the past, Star Wars was distinct because it was basically one story (or three sets of closely-related stories) whose conflicts and emotional stakes were always designed to be accessible to children in addition to adults. That's what made it an enduring classic. But now? Well, it's not just one thing or a few sets of closely-related things anymore. Instead of having a distinct audience, its numerous parts have lots of audiences. Instead of producing something distinct, it's producing works that feel kind of generic. It's losing what made it special and homogenizing with the rest of the sci-fi/space opera market.

 

[Dee1891]

I mean, obviously you can have adult-focused Star Wars stories, because that's what's happening. But I would argue that when you do that, you take away the thing that probably defines Star Wars the most and makes it special -- I'm not aware of any other major space opera that's designed for children. And the story you end up with ends up feeling itself more like a generic adult political space opera -- Andor feels very much like The Expanse. So you end up with a franchise that feels less special, and an installment that feels generic.

I've always believed that at its core, the Star Wars saga has always been for adults - with elements for children to understand and enjoy. The one film that seemed the closest for kids might be the first, "A New Hope".

Right now, I can say that this series is solid. But I'm not blown away by it. Not yet. I think it's too early to judge it as the best Star Wars production from DisneyPlus. Right now, my main problem with "Andor" is the way each episode has ended. With the exception of the third episode, I've found the other episode endings - including the fourth one - a bit anti-climactic and flat. Did anyone else recognize Anton Lesser from "Game of Thrones"?

 

[Kor]

It's nice to finally see some natural scenery in televised live-action Star Wars besides deserts.

Kor

 

[Jedi Marso]

Great to see the Scottish countryside shown on screen.

I do believe that very same site was used in the opening scene of Rob Roy, with Liam Neeson. Check it out.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I think Rogue One was done in a way that kids could still connect with the stakes of the story.









So, first off, when I say "for kids" or "for adults," that's not always a matter of "stuff is too scary/violent for children to see." In fact, I think children's media can show quite a lot of violence, provided it's mediated. You can show, say, someone being beheaded in a children's story without it necessarily being inappropriate -- showing a lot of blood and viscera would probably be too much, but of course Star Wars comes with the perfect plot device of lightsabers that cauterize the wound as soon as they make it.

But, when I say Andor feels like it's for adults, I don't mean it's too violent or too dark. What I mean is, so far the stakes of the story feel too abstract for most children to connect to, and the ways in which the story escalates strike me as being too subtle until episode 3 for most children to feel engaged by. This is a story written for grown-ups in the same way that, like, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy is a story written for grown-ups.

Edited to add: Mind you, I'm not even saying it's bad! It's a well-written, well-made show. I just feel like this is outside the range of what Star Wars ought to be, and I think the story would have been better served had it been written as its own universe, liberated from the remaining tropes of Star Wars.

This is what makes it so good. As I said, when you can substitute everything substantial in this story for contempoary props / settings and it still works, you are writing on the next level. SW has had enough Disney Princesses and kiddy bombs.This shit is good for the franchise.

The Mandalorian hits the 8-year old chord in me that saw SW for the first time, and the 12-year old that saw ESB. Andor hits the adult SW chord for me now that I'm in my 50's and have watched shows like SEAL Team and Justified. There's room for it all.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Does anyone else love how Stellan Skarsgard poses in front of the mirror after donning his disguise, and like an actor, 'assumes the role' he plays on Coruscant?