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And Now, My True Feelings About Trek XI

The Wormhole

Fleet Admiral
Admiral
Okay, so for the past month or so you all have read me blather on about registries starting with zero, odd numbered nacelles and a Space Octopus. And while these things really do bother me, the main reason I rant about them is to get attention. Except for the Space Octopus, that's actually starting to seem pretty cool.

But what do I really think about the movie?

Among my rants I have made it no secret that I am not particularly thrilled about what I have learned about the movie so far. But allow me to state right now that despite my whining about the movie I have every intention of being among the first to see it when it comes out in theatres, and the same is true about anyone and everyone who posts or even just reads this forum. Anyone who claims otherwise is just bullshitting everyone including themselves.

But back to my point, I honestly do not believe this will be a particularly good Trek movie. We start with my primary reason for dreading this movie:

JJ Abrams & Cohorts
JJ Abrams I feel is a very overrated individual, based on what I've seen of his work. Lost is a confusing mess which I refuse to comment on, and Alias was over-emotional to the point of being a "chick show." And sadly, it seems as though Abrams is bringing his nauseating emotionalism to this movie, what with rumours about Kirk being raised by a drunk uncle whose abuse motivates him to join Starfleet. While it's true Star Trek covers a wide spectrum of topics, and there have been times when Trek has struck genuine emotional chords with me, I do not believe Trek should be emotional just for the sake of being emotional, which sadly this whole "druncle" sounds like it will be.

Now the Cohorts, I'm not to fond of either, but really all I have judge them on is Transformers. Transformers is a rather polarized movie, it has its supporters, it has its naysayers. I am the latter. Though even the supporters are willing to place blame for the movie's flaws entirely with Michael Bay. And while its true that Bay's military masturbation and insane action sequences didn't help the movie, there are flaws with its writing. But this post is not about Transformers and its problems. I only use it as an example that the Cohorts are not held in high esteem by me either.

My point is, I do not believe these people are the right people to be handling Trek's return. And for another really big issue I have:

Making Star Trek "Trendy"
It's like what the Cohorts did with Transformers, they took something that was considered to be only enjoyable for nerds still living in the 80s and made it so that even the common Joe of today now thinks they are a Transformers fan. I am not a Transformers fan, so I have no right getting upset over this, but it still bothers me.

Oh, but everyone says that they want Star Trek to be trendy. Maybe some of you are social outcasts who think because a Trek movie is #1 at the weekend box office you will suddenly gain friends, maybe score with that girl you can't work up the courage to ask out.

But, I say this. Star Trek has been around for 42 years. It has 700 qauality episodes, and 10 reasonably good movies, the worst of which is still better than most of the box office #1s in recent years. If they've missed out on this, than that's their loss. I will not have slack-jawed yokels who see a movie they like and now start declaring themselves Star Trek fans because they think a popular movie is cool. This is the height of hypocrissy and anyone who engages in such behaviour is considered to be less than human by me.

Currently Available Information
Admittedly we don't know much of anything yet. We've seen the new bridge which looks horrible. This is the kind of thing I expect to see in a cheap science fiction TV show that's at worst trying to be Star Trek or at best parodying Trek. But this is actually supposed to be real Star Trek. With an actual budget. That's just sad.

The uniforms are nothing more than pathetic imitations of the TOS uniforms. They should have either have used to actual uniforms or made new ones.

And the leaked trailer does not sound all that great either, and is solidifying my opinion that this could very well be one of the worse movies I've ever seen. Trek or otherwise.
 
Hey Wormhole...I see you don't have an avatar, and I thought this would be appropriate (just in good fun ;) ).

count-ava-2.jpg


...getting back on topic:

You, like everyone else, are entitled to your opinion. However, my opinion of what I've seen of this film so far does not match yours, and I'm still willing to wait and see it.

You may turn out to be right, and this could be a very poor film. However, right now I think you are looking TOO HARD to find flaws. Every film has flaws, and if you dwell on those flaws, there is no way you will allow yourself to enjoy what could otherwise be a good film.

If I watched TWoK with a VERY critical eye, it would probably seem to be a ridiculous film.

Just look at how Mystery Science Theater tore apart the otherwise great classic Sci-fi film This Island Earth. One of my favorite lines from MST3K's 'riff' on that film was this:

Exeter: Place your hands above the rails. They're magnetized.
Mike Nelson (in Exeter's voice): ...and if your hands were metal, that would mean something.
 
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Oh, but everyone says that they want Star Trek to be trendy. Maybe some of you are social outcasts who think because a Trek movie is #1 at the weekend box office you will suddenly gain friends, maybe score with that girl you can't work up the courage to ask out.

But, I say this. Star Trek has been around for 42 years. It has 700 qauality episodes, and 10 reasonably good movies, the worst of which is still better than most of the box office #1s in recent years. If they've missed out on this, than that's their loss. I will not have slack-jawed yokels who see a movie they like and now start declaring themselves Star Trek fans because they think a popular movie is cool. This is the height of hypocrissy and anyone who engages in such behaviour is considered to be less than human by me.

:guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw:

Yeah this isn't over-dramatic Simpsons comic store nerd stuff, no siree
 
put away your scalpels
the franchise needs to be reinvigorated
look at how Battlestar Galactica was dissected before it was even shown
it is a hit
I have been a fan since day 1.
Its time for new blood. Gene's vision will continue via J.J. and associates.
Remember they are fans as well.
I think everyone is going to be surprised. They know where the movies fell short. They know where the series fell short.
So lets all have an open mind.
 
look at how Battlestar Galactica was dissected before it was even shown
it is a hit
I have been a fan since day 1.

Apples and Orange Catholic Bibles. Ron Moore had the decency to say he was doing something different than original BSG. Abrams is taking his horrible Star Wars knock-off and labeling it Star Trek, while saying that it's in the "spirt of original Trek."
 
But, I say this. Star Trek has been around for 42 years. It has 700 qauality episodes, and 10 reasonably good movies, the worst of which is still better than most of the box office #1s in recent years.

I don't know about you, but from this year alone, I'll watch The Dark Knight, Tropic Thunder, Iron Man, Burn After Reading, Hellboy II, The Incredible Hulk, WALL-E, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Cloverfield and maybe Hancock (all movies that held the #1 position in the box office this year) before I ever waste my time with Star Trek Nemesis again.
 
But, I say this. Star Trek has been around for 42 years. It has 700 qauality episodes, and 10 reasonably good movies, the worst of which is still better than most of the box office #1s in recent years.

I don't know about you, but from this year alone, I'll watch The Dark Knight, Tropic Thunder, Iron Man, Burn After Reading, Hellboy II, The Incredible Hulk, WALL-E, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Cloverfield and maybe Hancock (all movies that held the #1 position in the box office this year) before I ever waste my time with Star Trek Nemesis again.

See, out of those movies, the only ones I'd bother to see again are The Dark Knight and Hancock. The rest, once was enough, or I didn't even bother for a first time.
 
All of the reasons you're apprehensive are reasons I'm looking forward to the movie. I don't what's inherently wrong with a "chick show." I love movies from a woman's point of view if they respect the intelligence of the characters and audience. When someone rails against something being a "chick show" it's usually something that they're afraid of liking in case someone thinks they're girly. I'm not saying that's your take on Alias, but something I see a lot. There are good shows, bad shows, mediocre shows. That's about it. Genre is ultimately nothing more than a context in which characters try to engage the audience.

Which brings me to the other point about emotionalism. That's what all art is. If someone just wanted something that was about the future or aliens or time travel there are magazines for that like Discover, Popular Science, Scientific American, etc. But if you want a story where fictional characters encounter the future, aliens or time travel then that's what movies are for. A story, or a painting, or a piece of music is ultimately supposed to elicit strong emotion in the audience to the point where there's some loss of control, usually in the form of tears--tears of joy, anger, laughter, sadness, closure.

I actually haven't seen much of JJ Abrams, nor Orci & Kurtzman's work, but what I have seen has impressed me. I really did like Transformers for the first two acts. I liked that it did focus on this regular kid who's world changed forever. It had humor and pathos. And I do blame Michael Bay for the bloated third act, for a never-ending action sequence that was a loud mess of cuts and computer-generated debris.

Lastly the commercial appeal of the movie shouldn't be so quickly underrated. The most popular Star Trek movies are usually the most critically acclaimed and most acclaimed by fans. If you talk to someone who doesn't know much about Trek, they'd still probably mention at least Star Trek II and First Contact as ones they've seen and liked. Those two generally top fan lists and critic lists.

To dismiss the general public's taste so readily is kind of elitist (to be distinguished from the word "elite" which would obviously be a good thing for Trek to aspire to be).
 
All of the reasons you're apprehensive are reasons I'm looking forward to the movie. I don't what's inherently wrong with a "chick show." I love movies from a woman's point of view if they respect the intelligence of the characters and audience. When someone rails against something being a "chick show" it's usually something that they're afraid of liking in case someone thinks they're girly. I'm not saying that's your take on Alias, but something I see a lot. There are good shows, bad shows, mediocre shows. That's about it. Genre is ultimately nothing more than a context in which characters try to engage the audience.

It isn't so much a matter of fearing someone will think I'm girly. It's more a matter of it just isn't my thing, and its not a road I want to see Trek go down.

Lastly the commercial appeal of the movie shouldn't be so quickly underrated. The most popular Star Trek movies are usually the most critically acclaimed and most acclaimed by fans. If you talk to someone who doesn't know much about Trek, they'd still probably mention at least Star Trek II and First Contact as ones they've seen and liked. Those two generally top fan lists and critic lists.

To dismiss the general public's taste so readily is kind of elitist (to be distinguished from the word "elite" which would obviously be a good thing for Trek to aspire to be).

For me its more of a personal issue. I am going to find it sick when people who have ridiculed me for being a Trek fan decide they like Star Trek and start trying to be my friend just because the like this movie. I went through a similar situation back in 99 when Star Wars Episode 1 was released. More accurately, just before it was released whe Star Wars mania was at the highest it has ever been in my lifetime. Everyone at school who mocked me for being a nerd now wanted to be my friend because Star Wars was now "cool." At the time I embraced this, but now I'm old enough to realize this was a mistake.
 
Well, if the people who wanted to be your friend because of Star Wars turned out to be crappy friends it's not because they liked the movies all of a sudden. It's because they were going to be crappy friends anyway because they mocked you for your fandom. There are folks out there who don't like Star Trek right now, but that doesn't mean they're jerks about it. The Trek converts who have better potential to be friends are the ones who were apathetic to Trek in the first place. For them, if they're decent, honest people, Trek is an ice breaker to get to know them as friends.

And the people who mocked you for Trek who want to talk you about it now would probably just be acquaintances anyway. They don't have to be your friend, just someone to talk to Trek about. If they turn out to be jerks not much is lost. I encounter people like that all the time.
 
Well, if the people who wanted to be your friend because of Star Wars turned out to be crappy friends it's not because they liked the movies all of a sudden. It's because they were going to be crappy friends anyway because they mocked you for your fandom. There are folks out there who don't like Star Trek right now, but that doesn't mean they're jerks about it. The Trek converts who have better potential to be friends are the ones who were apathetic to Trek in the first place. For them, if they're decent, honest people, Trek is an ice breaker to get to know them as friends.

And the people who mocked you for Trek who want to talk you about it now would probably just be acquaintances anyway. They don't have to be your friend, just someone to talk to Trek about. If they turn out to be jerks not much is lost. I encounter people like that all the time.
I've never made friends based on the stuff I like. Sure similar intrests are cool but I'm friends with my friends because we click together well and can talk out our differances without being jerks.
 
Well, sure. I mean that if someone is going to make friends through personal interests, it's only a starting point, not a litmus test. If anything I'm saying it's less of a factor than Wormhole suggests. Whether or not they were a fan before or are a fan now, is merely a topic for conversation. If they're a jerk then either chat with them politely or don't be their friend.
 
I agree pretty much with the OP on almost every point. I'm sure to be there on opening night, but with every passing leak I'm looking forward to the event less and less. The plot line sounds way too Dawson's Creek, the bridge is atrocious, and the ship -- <sigh>, the ship looks like something I would have concocted for one of my sims 10 years ago.

I just wonder why they keep trying to make Trek appeal to the masses so much. Seems to me that every time they've tried, it falls hard on its ass. From darkening DS9 to sexing up Voyager, it seems that Trek was tripping all over itself to pursue new fans. And over the years as we watched with horror at what B&B did (but that Ron Moore, Ira Behr, and Manny Coto swam uphill against) to the franchise in that pursuit, we were pushed away, told we don't matter, and chastised for not supporting TPTB in all they do, and blamed for Trek's demise.

The truth is, we the Trekkies kept the franchise viable for decades! There are millions of us ready and waiting to go see GOOD movies several times in a row, ready and waiting to scoop up the latest books, model kits, action figures. I just don't see why we -- the geeks who buy the technical manuals, play the video games, collect the ornaments -- are not only not the target audience, but are such a minor factor in all of this. And if this movie, which is clearly not being made for us, flops, they'll blame us again. The Trekkies just don't like Star Trek anymore.

:(

PS: I do give the costume designers major props for the brilliant new uniforms. They're wonderfully faithful, while thankfully updated. I wish the rest of the team cared do much.
 
I agree pretty much with the OP on almost every point. I'm sure to be there on opening night, but with every passing leak I'm looking forward to the event less and less. The plot line sounds way too Dawson's Creek, the bridge is atrocious, and the ship -- <sigh>, the ship looks like something I would have concocted for one of my sims 10 years ago.

I just wonder why they keep trying to make Trek appeal to the masses so much. Seems to me that every time they've tried, it falls hard on its ass. From darkening DS9 to sexing up Voyager, it seems that Trek was tripping all over itself to pursue new fans. And over the years as we watched with horror at what B&B did (but that Ron Moore, Ira Behr, and Manny Coto swam uphill against) to the franchise in that pursuit, we were pushed away, told we don't matter, and chastised for not supporting TPTB in all they do, and blamed for Trek's demise.

The truth is, we the Trekkies kept the franchise viable for decades! There are millions of us ready and waiting to go see GOOD movies several times in a row, ready and waiting to scoop up the latest books, model kits, action figures. I just don't see why we -- the geeks who buy the technical manuals, play the video games, collect the ornaments -- are not only not the target audience, but are such a minor factor in all of this. And if this movie, which is clearly not being made for us, flops, they'll blame us again. The Trekkies just don't like Star Trek anymore.

:(

PS: I do give the costume designers major props for the brilliant new uniforms. They're wonderfully faithful, while thankfully updated. I wish the rest of the team cared do much.
Actually this is the first time they've really tried to make trek appeal to the masses. if you look at all the past versions of trek they were basically for the fanbase that was there. Retread stories, tired psuedo-science all to please the trekkies, which is why the franchise is having it's final death kneel if this movie fails, because even given a recongizable ship people have still found shit to bitch about...
'

I need a beer.
 
Actually this is the first time they've really tried to make trek appeal to the masses. if you look at all the past versions of trek they were basically for the fanbase that was there. Retread stories, tired psuedo-science all to please the trekkies, which is why the franchise is having it's final death kneel if this movie fails, because even given a recongizable ship people have still found shit to bitch about...
'

I need a beer.


QFT, beer included.
 
I'm posting from the office, so I don't have time to hunt down links, but TPTB have been trying forever to make something that will appeal to a wider/different audience. Every time something new comes out, that's part of the things they crow about. "It's gonna be great! Millions of people are going to come watch. Fans'll like it too, I guess, but that's not the main factor."

Enterprise didn't even have Star Trek in the title. That's how far they were willing to go in order to attract newbies. Now, I'm not saying attracting new fans is a bad thing - but let's stay with the right target audience. Endless tinkering with the Trek brand is what got us to this point.
 
Actually this is the first time they've really tried to make trek appeal to the masses. if you look at all the past versions of trek they were basically for the fanbase that was there. Retread stories, tired psuedo-science all to please the trekkies, which is why the franchise is having it's final death kneel if this movie fails, because even given a recongizable ship people have still found shit to bitch about...
'

I need a beer.


QFT, beer included.

We should all get together for pitcher :techman:
 
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