And now Cogenitor. Some thoughts.

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Tetragrammaton Invictus, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

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    And this episode for various reasons really irritates me now just as it did the first time I watched it.

    But I'm not going to go with the negatives this first post. I am going to go with the positives. The aliens despite being the usual bumpy makeup on the face kind are actually an interesting design. They're not over complicated but they actually do look like how I'd imagine a human shaped alien to look. The women were all rather striking and I can't but help think they deliberately looked for beautiful people when casting these aliens.

    BTW is that Andreas Katsulas? Formerly G'kar on Babylon 5?

    Next post the negatives after I finish this episode I couldn't do it in one go because it makes me angry.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  2. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

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    Oh boy........ Where to start. After all the good bits there's the middle to end of the episode and that's where the story got some of its meat.

    Trip does a very human thing and puts human values into the situation and nearly ruins their relations with the aliens. He introduces the Congenitor to reading and free thought. Something neither she or her culture had provided for her.

    But see this is where I got torn on this episode sure are we supposed to root for Trip freeing the slave from her captivity or should be boo and hiss because frankly he meddled in an alien culture. They've probably lived this way for 1000s of years and now he's gone and upset all of that. This episode always makes me angry because as humans do we have the right to address another culture and tell them they are in the wrong?

    I really don't think we do.. It's not our right to police other cultures based on how we live. At least that is how I feel every time I watch this episode.

    Next is the superb episode "REGENERATION."

    Things I also liked were the designs of the alien ship. The Stratopod is an awesome thing. You can dive down into the atmosphere of a star in that thing. That's such a neat little ship. Starfleet never developed one despite what the Vissian captain says. I don't think we've seen anything like that in any future incarnations of Trek.

    Overall a great episode

    7/10
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Archer and G'Kar totally got lucky on their dirty weekend together.
     
  4. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

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    Oh haha I see what you did there :)
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, also known among Trek fans as Romulan Commander Tomalak on TNG.
     
  6. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

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    Ah......... The penny dropped haha. I thought Tomalak was familiar.

    Still a great episode. Did Reed end up sleeping with that woman. He certainly liked the look of her ass, as did a lot of viewers I bet.

    I skipped over "Regeneration" because everything that could be said about this episode has been said on here before. I was very sad at the end when we learn the Congenitor took its own life. But then this was because Trip upset the balance somewhat by introducing human centric values into his thinking.
     
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  7. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since Cogenitor first was shown it's been a controversial show. When it came to Trip teaching the Cogenitor how to read and Charles wanted to be able to be treated like a person instead of a servant or slave and decided to ask to stay on the Enterprise it makes you wonder what would've happened if they let her stay aboard Enterprise instead of sending her back to her own ship. When things took such a tragic turn.
     
  8. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

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    Yeah it's interesting. I've been reading more about this episode online and it has the effect of polarizing some people on various levels.

    This is the perfect episode for today though with issues of transgender and such.
     
  9. Prax

    Prax Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Trip was pretty meddlesome in this episode. I don't think it was out of character as he has been meddlesome before, but he should know better than to sneak around instead of going through official channels.

    This is a lot like the Tom Paris episode 30 days. They both become obsessed with some righteous cause, and circumvent the authority of friendly aliens.
     
  10. Tundra Saint

    Tundra Saint Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The Cogenitors were pretty much an enslaved caste in their society that was just treated as illiterate breeding stock and not even allowed names. I agree with what Trip did in that situation.
     
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  11. feek61

    feek61 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This one really annoys me as well. Trip, what are you thinking? Just doesn't ring true to his character to me. It's been a long time since I've watched it; maybe I will give it another shot.
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This episode puts paid to the belief that Archer doesn't have guts. His smackdown on Trip was spot-on, and ENTIRELY justified.

    Cogenitors are essential to Vissian reproduction, and are very rare, so it's not Trip's place to question how they are treated.
     
  13. JoeCabby

    JoeCabby Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think if there really was a species with 3 sexes and cogenitors were of limited supply, they would be rock stars. It's the basic law of supply and demand. They would be considered a hot commodity. Reminds me of that Tila Tequila show where both guys and girls try to get with her. But I guess it was all just supposed to mirror the LGBT community so it wouldn't be a good story otherwise.
     
  14. Mattadd

    Mattadd Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I actually liked the concept of this show. The execution left something to be desired but the idea of Trip imposing anti-slavery values on the aliens is very believable. In future centuries the Federation stands against slavery in all forms. They may not directly interfere in a non-Federation culture the way Trip did but they make it clear that such cultures would not be welcome in the Federation and that we disapprove. Considering Trip's personality his actions are completely in character and justifiable.

    The flip side is that it shows Archer representing the non-interference aspect of Starfleet, which is also a tenet of the future Federation. His actions were also completely justifiable.
     
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  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I don't recall a "smackdown" just Archer giving a rather fatherly "I'm not really angry, just disappointed" speech to Trip at the end. Which is rather light considering Trip's meddling resulted in someone committing suicide and screwed over relations with a potential ally.
     
  16. Mutai Sho-Rin

    Mutai Sho-Rin Crusty Old Bastard Moderator

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    You should watch it again. Archers severe coldness and clipped dialog with his otherwise best friend stung hard. Trip's reaction showed the impact of Archer's words.
     
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  17. Tetragrammaton Invictus

    Tetragrammaton Invictus I like the new Doctor Premium Member

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    It's still a solid episode even after the 3rd viewing, which is what it was when I did my little mini comments.

    I did skip right over Regeneration because really there's not a lot I could add to discussion on this that anyone else here hasn't already said.

    First Flight, Bounty, and The Expanse are all solid episodes. I never caught much of the banter in Bounty before but watching it again it's a neat little episode. Poor guy shame about his ship but that's Klingons for you. They're not nice.
     
  18. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Premium Member

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    I don't. Should the cogenitors be treated like persons, yes. But should they have equal rights? No!

    If 3% of the population are crucial to the species survival their rights as individuals pretty much go out of the window and not so much by choice, it's a necessity.
     
  19. Tenacity

    Tenacity Commodore Commodore

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    What if they were 50% and female?
     
  20. psCargile

    psCargile Captain Captain

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    You'd think a guy that grew a nipple on his wrist would know better.