Amy, Rory and Rivers ultimate fate at the library

[theonering]

This kinda just crossed my mind... Does anybody recall if the doctor told Amy or rory that the first time he met river was the day she died? I can't recall if it was ever mentioned in series 5 or 6.

If not, how do you think the doctor should handle it? Should he keep it to himself?

 

[Turbo]

The Doctor never mentioned it, but River told Rory that it would "kill me" when she when she finally met a Doctor who didn't recognize her.

 

[3chordboy]

The Doctor never mentioned it, but River told Rory that it would "kill me" when she when she finally met a Doctor who didn't recognize her.

yes, it still messes with my head that when she says this she is talking about Tennant's Doctor and we've already seen her saddest day. makes this moments even more heartbreaking i think

 

[Butters]

Assuming what we know about the baby isn't a misdirection, was there anything about her death that would prevent a regeneration?

 

[The Wormhole]

Assuming what we know about the baby isn't a misdirection, was there anything about her death that would prevent a regeneration?

When the Doctor was planning on plugging himself into the machine to save the day, River said "You'll burn up both your hearts, and I'm pretty sure you won't regenerate from that."

If the Doctor wouldn't regenerate, River wouldn't either.

 

[Awesome Possum]

What really blows my mind is that she absolutely has to die. If the Doctor had died in the library, he would have never met Amy and Rory. Amy and Rory never have sex in the Tardis and River is never conceived. River had to die in order to even exist in the first place.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^Which kind of fits. When the Doctor said to River "time can be re-written" she responded "not these times."

 

[Trubinator]

What really blows my mind is that she absolutely has to die. If the Doctor had died in the library, he would have never met Amy and Rory. Amy and Rory never have sex in the Tardis and River is never conceived. River had to die in order to even exist in the first place.

Well said! I think that's an excellent summation of why the coming episodes will be so powerful.

 

[DWF]

What really blows my mind is that she absolutely has to die. If the Doctor had died in the library, he would have never met Amy and Rory. Amy and Rory never have sex in the Tardis and River is never conceived. River had to die in order to even exist in the first place.

Of course had River not sent for the Doctor he never would've gone to the library in the first place.

 

[The Other]

The Doctor never mentioned it, but River told Rory that it would "kill me" when she when she finally met a Doctor who didn't recognize her.

How does she know? It's her future right? She hasn't experienced it yet...Doctor wouldn't throw out Spoilers like that....maybe she was exaggerating? Maybe as a Pseudo-Timelord she can also see all time and space?

 

[The Wormhole]

The Doctor never mentioned it, but River told Rory that it would "kill me" when she when she finally met a Doctor who didn't recognize her.

How does she know? It's her future right? She hasn't experienced it yet...Doctor wouldn't throw out Spoilers like that....maybe she was exaggerating? Maybe as a Pseudo-Timelord she can also see all time and space?

It's hyperbole. When she says it would "kill her" to meet the Doctor before he knew her, she means it would devestate her completely. Kind of like when someone says "I'm dying to know..."

That this turns out to be her actual death is just coincidence. Well, to an extent. I think it's obvious that Moffat's intent while writing that scene was to remind us of the Library episodes.

 

[Stevil2001]

Yeah, it's ham-fisted retro-foreshadowing, like those Stargazer novels where Picard says things like, "I can't imagine what I'd look like without hair!"

 

[borgboy]

While River saying that the Doctor not knowing her would kill her was a very obvious reminder of her death to the audiance, I thought it worked really well to show how much the Doctor means to her, and brings new angst to re watching those episodes, as we know that since they tend to meet in reverse order, River pretty much knows that will be the last time that she ever sees the Doctor.
I hope we get a return visit to the Library someday, no reason the Doctor can't visit, and really, you'd think he could upload her mind into a clone body or something. I think we may see her in the Library as a kind of epilogue to the end of her story someday.

 

[Mr Light]

Why doesn't he use her mind in the library computer to remote-control a Ganger?

 

[Skellington]

It's hyperbole. When she says it would "kill her" to meet the Doctor before he knew her, she means it would devestate her completely. Kind of like when someone says "I'm dying to know..."

Maybe, but then again River's not exactly stupid. If she really does believe that she's mostly meeting the Doctor in reverse order, then maybe she's figured out that she probably gets killed on an adventure, and soon. A few years into the Doctor's future he'll probably be quite familiar with her, but in that scene with Rory she says that he knows less and less about her each time. (I think Moffatt commented that a good analogy would be a debilitating disease that robbed a loved one of their memory.) River may suspect that the end is near and so "I think it's going to kill me." could be a double entendre and even a private joke.

 

[DWF]

I'm pretty sure she meant it would kill her emotionally as in break her heart. And if she was so unsufferable in the library I might feel sorry for her as well.

 

[borgboy]

I really think River was just talking about the emotional pain of losing the Doctor. Meeting a Doctor who doesn't know her means she's probably going to lose him forever. Considering she hints that she's his wife, this would be a devestating loss to her. I don't think she saw her death coming at all.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, it's ham-fisted retro-foreshadowing

I love this phrase, btw. And that's what it is. It's not meant to be taken literally, but metaphorically.

Why doesn't he use her mind in the library computer to remote-control a Ganger?

Maybe people who are ghosting can't control gangers. Maybe it requires a complete mind.

 

[theonering]

I really think River was just talking about the emotional pain of losing the Doctor. Meeting a Doctor who doesn't know her means she's probably going to lose him forever. Considering she hints that she's his wife, this would be a devestating loss to her. I don't think she saw her death coming at all.

This brings up another point... if it turns out that they do end up having a relationship with each other, does the Doctor genuinely fall in love with her? Or does he just fake it to avoid a paradox because he thinks he's supposed to end up marrying her or whatever the timelord equivalent is?

Say what you want about moffats far reaching plots, but I think he's set the doctor up where he has to be more than just some intergalactic super hero... he may have to make some very hard choices regarding himself.

 

[borgboy]

I feel like we've already seen signs of the Doctor having feelings for River, so while I don't know how it will play out, I absolutely don't believe the Doctor will be faking his feelings for River. He genuinely cares about her, and he did respond to her kiss, so intimacy seems to be an option.