American research shows Moffat to be sexist

[Pindar]

Well maybe not, but some American students think so.

Friday afternoon froth.

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/30/has-doctor-who-become-more-sexist

 

[chelly]

Sounds like a group of students were bored. I wonder how the classic era ladies would fair? Would screaming be included as part of the test?

The problem I have with the test, it doesn't take into account what the plot was or the type of show they are watching. Even Gravity would fail the author mentions even though it just had a female lead.

 

[StCoop]

The problem I have with the test, it doesn't take into account what the plot was or the type of show they are watching.

What difference should that make?

If you can't write female characters whose interests don't revolve mostly around men (or man in this case) then you're doing something wrong.

The 'Gravity' example is nonsense, since it only has a couple of characters in it. Moffat has 14 episodes a series to fill with plenty of characters.

 

[diankra]

Ummm.... given that the key test is 'two named female characters talk to each other about something other than a man', and that the central character of the series is male and effectively the key person in the other characters' lives, it's hardly surprising that Who doesn't come off well.
In Casualty it's easy to have a female doctor and a female nurse have a conversation about medicine and hence pass the test, but in Who they'll often be asking each other "What's the Doctor's plan?". Plus add in River's relationship with the Doctor being central to her character, and then...

 

[StCoop]

Ummm.... given that the key test is 'two named female characters talk to each other about something other than a man', and that the central character of the series is male and effectively the key person in the other characters' lives, it's hardly surprising that Who doesn't come off well.

Except in RTD's time when it came off very well...

And looking the frothing hate and misogyny filled responses to these figures elsewhere on the net even if the series isn't sexist plenty of its fans are.

 

[Sindatur]

Yea, we need to go back to the days of Equality when a Victorian woman is on The TARDIS for all of about 5 minutes, and immediately puts on a Miniskirt or like in The Space Pirates, where The Doctor, Zoe and Jamie are all knocked out, and The Doctor climbs over Zoe, without checking up on her, in order to get to Jamie to see if he was alright. And of course, there's Zoe's Cat Suit climbing up the ladder (And every other female Companion who dressed up in Miniskirts.

 

[The Wormhole]

Haven't people always been trying to accuse Moffat of being sexist? I remember when the first images were released of Karen Gillan in various mini-skirts there were people accusing Moffat of being a "misogynistic pig."

It can not be denied Moffat is somewhat shallow in regards to women, he wasn't convinced about Karen Gillan until he met her and discovered she was much better looking in person than she was in her audition video. However, there is nothing sexist about how he writes his female characters. And indeed, some of the franchise's more memorable female characters were created by him, such as River, Sally Sparrow, Vastra and Jenny.

But then, I remember some people accusing RTD of being homophobic(!) over Rose's comment about her mother slapping the Doctor being "so gay." The internet is ripe with weird accusations.

 

[StCoop]

Yea, we need to go back to the days of Equality when a Victorian woman is on The TARDIS for all of about 5 minutes, and immediately puts on a Miniskirt or like in The Space Pirates, where The Doctor, Zoe and Jamie are all knocked out, and The Doctor climbs over Zoe, without checking up on her, in order to get to Jamie to see if he was alright. And of course, there's Zoe's Cat Suit climbing up the ladder (And every other female Companion who dressed up in Miniskirts.

None of which has anything to do with the analysis in question.

If you think the statistical part of the research is wrong in any way apply the same standards to refute it.

 

[StCoop]

However, there is nothing sexist about how he writes his female characters.

Except that their lives all revolve around men. Or rather, man.

Where's Moffat's Donna? A main character who doesn't fancy the Doctor at any point.

 

[chelly]

Or that extremely long butt shot of her clinging onto the console. I think the women companions fair a lot better then the classic in some ways. Though there were quite a few female companions that were very good. (Barbara, Sarah etc). Personally I check to see how the female character is treated in the show and not by her line count and what she talks about.

I don't check to see if a show is sexist or not, if the characters aren't all that compelling to me I don't watch. I like Classic who despite the mini skirts (or panty shots in some cases) and the screaming.

 

[Sindatur]

Yea, we need to go back to the days of Equality when a Victorian woman is on The TARDIS for all of about 5 minutes, and immediately puts on a Miniskirt or like in The Space Pirates, where The Doctor, Zoe and Jamie are all knocked out, and The Doctor climbs over Zoe, without checking up on her, in order to get to Jamie to see if he was alright. And of course, there's Zoe's Cat Suit climbing up the ladder (And every other female Companion who dressed up in Miniskirts.

None of which has anything to do with the analysis in question.

If you think the statistical part of the research is wrong in any way apply the same standards to refute it.

Eh...It shows the show has always been at least as Sexist as it is now.

 

[StCoop]

Eh...It shows the show has always been at least as Sexist as it is now.

And you don't think it should be more progressive in 2014 than it was in 1964?

 

[chelly]

However, there is nothing sexist about how he writes his female characters.

Except that their lives all revolve around men. Or rather, man.

Where's Moffat's Donna? A main character who doesn't fancy the Doctor at any point.

They are on the Tardis flown by a Male and put in dangerous situations. Do you want them to stop and sit down for tea and talk about books etc.

Rose had no one other then sarah, mickey (when they decided to treat him half decently) and her mom . Any other time it was just him.

Martha had no other females to really talk to

Donna the same as Martha and she was a chatty person.

Amy she had River and Rory to talk to and their lives did revolve around the doctor since he had a big part in their lives.

River, the same as Amy.

I am beting clara would have the same numbers or close to what Donna has.

 

[Mister Fandango]

Ummm.... given that the key test is 'two named female characters talk to each other about something other than a man', and that the central character of the series is male and effectively the key person in the other characters' lives, it's hardly surprising that Who doesn't come off well.

Except in RTD's time when it came off very well...

What?

With Moffatt, the Doctor had a very independent, strong, aggressive wife, and two a single spunky, strong, independent companions, only one of whom had a bit of a crush on him for a short while.

With RTD, he had, what, two dim-witted bimbos (okay, only one was dim-witted, but even though Martha was a doctor, she was still treated like she was, too) who were madly in love with the Doctor (three if you count Kylie Minogue), one of which was unrequited, and another one who was a loud-mouthed bitch of a woman who, not surprisingly, was also rather dim-witted.

How the hell was it better with RTD?

 

[The Wormhole]

How the hell was it better with RTD?

No fetish costumes?

 

[chelly]

Ummm.... given that the key test is 'two named female characters talk to each other about something other than a man', and that the central character of the series is male and effectively the key person in the other characters' lives, it's hardly surprising that Who doesn't come off well.

Except in RTD's time when it came off very well...

What?

With Moffatt, the Doctor had a very independent, strong, aggressive wife, and two a single spunky, strong, independent companions, only one of whom had a bit of a crush on him for a short while.

With RTD, he had, what, two dim-witted bimbos (okay, only one was dim-witted, but even though Martha was a doctor, she was still treated like she was, too) who were madly in love with the Doctor (three if you count Kylie Minogue), one of which was unrequited, and another one who was a loud-mouthed bitch of a woman who, not surprisingly, was also rather dim-witted.

How the hell was it better with RTD?

Ditto on this well except for the insult to Donna. I never found her to be dimwitted nor did I find her to be bitchy. Loud yes I will give you that one but out of all RTD's companions she was the best of the lot.

To think about it, I don't think any of them were dim witted, not a very nice and kind of a bitch (rose) and a bit boring though can't be helped with some of her episodes and the doctor's attitude (Martha).

 

[Sindatur]

However, there is nothing sexist about how he writes his female characters.

Except that their lives all revolve around men. Or rather, man.

It's a very small cast, and the star is a Man who whisks female Companions around the Universe. of course their lives revolve around Men/Man? At least River, Amy and Clara all are just as important to the Safety/Well Being of The Doctor and The Universe as The Doctor himself is (As were RTD's Companions). Classic Companions, for the most part could've been anyone.

Hell, in Amy's case (as well as Rose's) you say it misandrist, as Rory was there as Amy's husband (And Mickey as Rose's Boyfriend), rather than the Amy being there as Rory's Wife.

Vastra and Jenny? How can anyone possibly see them as Sexist against Women? Strax is the third wheel in that relationship, his life revolves around Women.

 

[MickJo1701]

How the hell was it better with RTD?

Nothing was better with RTD.

 

[StCoop]

Vastra and Jenny? How can anyone possibly see them as Sexist against Women?

They're a couple of Male Fantasy Lesbians-In-Name-Only with a SF twist.

 

[StCoop]

With RTD, he had, what, two dim-witted bimbos (okay, only one was dim-witted, but even though Martha was a doctor, she was still treated like she was, too) who were madly in love with the Doctor (three if you count Kylie Minogue), one of which was unrequited, and another one who was a loud-mouthed bitch of a woman who, not surprisingly, was also rather dim-witted.

"Bimbo". "Dim-Witted". "Loud-Mouthed Bitch".

Big fan of Elliot Rodger I'm guessing?